Converting an old Module, CR question


Conversions


So a friend of mine got a new job and no longer has time to build/run the game anymore and I've been elected new DM. I'm actually looking forward to it though it's been almost 12 years since I was behind the screen.

I realize that I've jumped in the deep end of the pool here as I'm trying to convert the original 1985 Temple of Elemental Evil for the Pathfinder system and I have a question about the CR builds as something seems a bit off to me.

The first encounter at the moathouse calls for 6 giant frogs. If I'm reading the verbage correctly that would be a CR6 encounter granting each player 600xp ( assuming they survived ). Six of them seemed a little excessive so I thought I would take the core of the encounter, here being "the PC's are attacked by Giant Frogs" and build the encounter from scratch based around that idea.

So the APL for my group of four, first level players is 1. A standard encounter level for them would be a CR1 encounter giving me 400xp for which to "buy" monsters/traps for the encounter (again, assuming I'm reading this correctly). So with my 400xp bucks I run down to the monster store and start checking out Giant Frogs. Giant Frogs are CR1 and "cost" 400xp...

Suddenly I feel like I'm going from a slightly overpowering 6 frog encounter to a by the book cake walk. AC 12 and 15 hit point, that one frog is gonna get stomped quick and everyone will walk away with a hundred xp. Is the math in the calculation right? Am I reading this wrong?

While I don't want this to be a character grinder ( I know I know, its classic Gygax, all the peasants are rich and the monster uber deadly ) I don't want it to be this easy either. The math just seems a bit off to me and while I could wing it I was curious if this is going to be how the whole conversion goes. Thanks guys!

Liberty's Edge

I think the key to your situation is recognizing that a standard encounter of CR=APL isn't particularly challenging to experienced players and/or PCs built with abilities higher than the 15 point standard fantasy ability build. CR=APL is fine for plot advancing and flavor encounters but isn't very challenging. If you want more challenge, think of a steady diet of CR=APL+1 or APL+2 depending on the skills of your players and the level to stat build approach that's being used. If you're new behind the screen, maybe go with a couple of encounters to get the feel of what the PCs are capable of, and then scale the encounter as appropriate to get the crunch you're looking for.

Scarab Sages

Mmm... yes and no...

You can find guidelines for monster stats in the back of the bestiary.

If it's all about keeping the spirit of the encounters, then there are a few tricks you can pull.

The giant frog in question can start off lurking underwater. With a tongue attack, he can attempt to grab an unaware character, pull him underwater, and then swallow him whole.

So, surprise round, standard attack tongue (grab) followed by a free pull that brings the character underwater. Beginning of regular combat, frog swallows, dealing bite damage, then dives underwater taking the player with him.

The other characters either leave him to die, or follow him underwater, risking drowning. Melee characters will probably have to remove their armor first.

Otherwise, you can find some lower cr creatures and reskin them as frogs. You can even play with the frogs hp a bit, raising it up so it can eat a few more hits. As long as you don't go too far, you should be fine.


CR=APL is only supposed to consume 20-25% of the party's resources, and the party is supposed to be able to go through four such encounters before needing to rest. So, that type of encounter won't be particularly challenging, by design.

If you're able to find it, you might want to check out the 3rd edition module "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil". As it was made for a system that is compatible with Pathfinder, the conversion work for that module should be minimal.


That makes sense Are, and your right Magic dealer, I was neglecting to take into account the dangers of the environment as well, I might be able to make a single frog or two quite a challange.

In regards to the Return to ToEE, we will be running that as well, I've got a copy of that book at home, but on talking to the group we all thought it would be cool if we played the original, then a different AP, and then the Return, after I've had time to figure out the reppercussions and adjust Return ToEE.

Thanks alot guys!

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