Hello. I have seen both the 10 level and 15 level versions of the PrC. I rather liked the concept of 15 level PrC but could I get a 411 on this?
What is going on?
Is the original version still canon for Pathfinder? Just not for Society play?
Thanks
The level 15 version was an experiment and now is no longer official. You as always can still use it , but officially the 10 level version is the only one you will ever see used in products from here out IIRC.
If that is true, I am a bit unhappy to hear that. I liked the idea of a 15 level PrC, as I, probably like others, would like to be more than 50% a PrC. Wish they would continue with this style, especially as epic play comes along.
Well while I found it interesting I did see the issues. For one it made ya play pretty much a full 20 levels to finish it. As it stands pathfinder caps nicely at 15 or 16th level,any Prc that takes a full 20 levels or better to finish is not gonna be used often.
The other thing is at 15th level why not just make it an archetype or alt class? PRC's ask much of you to aim for them, a 10 level PRC is hard enough to finish in most games as is.
Well while I found it interesting I did see the issues. For one it made ya play pretty much a full 20 levels to finish it. As it stands pathfinder caps nicely at 15 or 16th level,any Prc that takes a full 20 levels or better to finish is not gonna be used often.
The other thing is at 15th level why not just make it an archetype or alt class? PRC's ask much of you to aim for them, a 10 level PRC is hard enough to finish in most games as is.
Because, I thought, we were eventually going to get some epic level play book at some time, meaning more rules and story arks for past level 20 play. Just a thought.
well you might but past 16 the game is very different and past 20 James has said a few times things may change a bit.
Still does not change that the 15th level PRC just did not work with the current game set up. Good or Ill it just didn't fit.
What book is the hellknight PrC in?
What book is the hellknight PrC in?
The 15-level version is in Pathfinder Adventure Path #27: What Lies in Dust.
The 10-level version is in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide.
I don't see any problem with 15 level PrCs. So what if you don't get to finish it? How often do you get to finish a full 20 level class?
Me personally? About twice a month :)
I do like that they returned it to 10 levels rather than having it as an oddball 15-level prestige class. It makes it seem like less of a gratuitous rules weirdness.
Creative Director
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The basic thought was that once you go to 15 levels in a prestige class... why NOT just go to the full 20 levels?
So we ramped it back to 10. The basic philosophy these days is if you have enough ideas for 20 levels, it's a base class. If you have only enough for 3 or 4 levels, it's an archetype. If your idea falls somewhere in-between, it's a prestige class (10 levels).
Note that just because it's down to 10 levels doesn't mean that when and if we do a post 20th-level book that you'll be STUCK at 10 levels for prestige classes...
The basic thought was that once you go to 15 levels in a prestige class... why NOT just go to the full 20 levels
Because it wasn't Iconic enough to be a base 20 level class?
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Creative Director
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The basic thought was that once you go to 15 levels in a prestige class... why NOT just go to the full 20 levelsBecause it wasn't Iconic enough to be a base 20 level class?
More like: It's too entrenched in Golarion lore to ever show up as a base class in the RPG Hardcover line, which are world-neutral.
Keeping the RPG Hardcovers world-neutral is good for the brand, since it helps people understand that you can play Pathfinder without having to play in Golarion... but it does periodically mean that some things that might be cool for Golarion won't happen simply because we don't have a proper place to MAKE them happen. A hellknight as a base class is, alas, a perfect example of this.
More like: It's too entrenched in Golarion lore to ever show up as a base class in the RPG Hardcover line, which are world-neutral.
Keeping the RPG Hardcovers world-neutral is good for the brand, since it helps people understand that you can play Pathfinder without having to play in Golarion... but it does periodically mean that some things that might be cool for Golarion won't happen simply because we don't have a proper place to MAKE them happen. A hellknight as a base class is, alas, a perfect example of this.
Is there any reason why you couldn't print a base class in a Golarion-specific product? The Inner Sea World Guide would seem like a good fit, if you wanted to make a 20-level version of the Hellknight :)
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Creative Director
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More like: It's too entrenched in Golarion lore to ever show up as a base class in the RPG Hardcover line, which are world-neutral.
Keeping the RPG Hardcovers world-neutral is good for the brand, since it helps people understand that you can play Pathfinder without having to play in Golarion... but it does periodically mean that some things that might be cool for Golarion won't happen simply because we don't have a proper place to MAKE them happen. A hellknight as a base class is, alas, a perfect example of this.
Is there any reason why you couldn't print a base class in a Golarion-specific product? The Inner Sea World Guide would seem like a good fit, if you wanted to make a 20-level version of the Hellknight :)
Apart from the fact that I think we already have more than enough base classes, the Inner Sea World Guide simply didn't have the room for something of that magnitude.
And as for a hellknight... I still think that prestige class is the better choice—it's a prestigious role, after all. Not everyone can become a hellknight—you have to qualify for it, and we don't put prerequisites on base classes. AKA: Despite what it might sound like in my previous post, I actually DON'T want to make a 20 level version of the Hellknight at all.
And as for a hellknight... I still think that prestige class is the better choice—it's a prestigious role, after all. Not everyone can become a hellknight—you have to qualify for it, and we don't put prerequisites on base classes. AKA: Despite what it might sound like in my previous post, I actually DON'T want to make a 20 level version of the Hellknight at all.
I agree that it fits better as a prestige class, and you did kind of make it sound as if you had wanted a 20-level version of it :)
And as for a hellknight... I still think that prestige class is the better choice—it's a prestigious role, after all.
Yeah, that is why I think a 15 level PrC works best, but that boat has sailed; oh well.
I would say a 15 level PrC criteria could be a base class that is too campaign specific or non-iconic to be so.
Thanks for the feedback.