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Inspired by the similar thread in the Carrion Crown forum, I'm curious what people think is the "optimum" party for the Kingmaker AP.
The rules:
1. Four party members (15 point build)
2. Core rules + APG only
3. Reasons for your choices based on challenges presented in the AP.
Cavalier - you're outdoor a ton of the time against solitary opponents, your horse is incredibly powerful (also, skill & fluff synergy with campaign's goal)
Bard - you're a great social guy (which there's plenty of opportunity for), and many of the monsters in the first 4 books have very low Will saves, asking for your magic to be cast upon them
Druid - lots of focus on wilderness, the party needs some sort of divine caster but doesn't need a cleric due to easy ability to rest between encounters; someone needs to take item creation feats (which you can get maximum mileage out of in this game)
Fighter - good all around figure, will alternate with the Cavalier player for melee-master depending on whether or not the battle is outdoors or not
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I did not include the following:
Paladin - a great many of the opponents are not evil, and you won't be able to use your signature abilities as often as you'd hope
Wizard - there is not much in the way of scrolls and other treasure suited for your needs
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I'm GMing this game (over the course of the campaign I've had about 20 characters go through it).
In any case were I to craft the perfect Kingmaker group of 4.
Thematic Race Choices: Human (Brevic), Elf, Gnome, Dwarf.
Cavalier (Baron/General/Marshal) - Lots of outdoor environments means lots of opportunity to use a mount, and some social skills to help with the leadership duties.
Druid (High Priest/Marshal) - The focus on outdoor adventures makes the druid a no-brainer. Plus you can really let loose with a nice big animal companion since there are so many big encounter areas.
Bard (Baron/Councillor/Grand Diplomat/Spymaster) - I think the Bard is the BEST class to be in this campaign, high skill points, spells and a Charisma focus really helps make allies of enemies (my party has done this to brilliant effect).
Wizard (Magister/Assassin/Spymaster) - While it's true there isn't a mountain of assumed scrolls and magic books Kingmaker has loads of something even better: TIME. A Wizard has the time to record far more spells in his spell book, to create any magic item of choice and to order what he can't make/find himself from Brevoy, or Mivon. Also with the shorter quests a wizard can really let loose with his spells, or take the time to prepare the exact spell for the exact job.
Those are my top 4 picks for Kingmaker.
Here are some more thematic picks:
Greenbelt Guardians
The Greenbelt Guardians are a group dedicated to creating a land that is in perfect balance with nature.
Group Alignment: N (NG, LN, CN, NE)
Baroness: Oracle of Nature - This prophet has long had a vision of leading people to a sanctuary of man and nature. Her high Charisma is a boon to her leadership and people flock to her.
Marshall: Druid - This druid and his bear or elk companion worships Erastil in his aspect of god of hunting and the forest. The Druid uses his wisdom to educate the colony on the ways of balance.
General: Ranger - The ranger is a master of guerilla style combat, and will train his armies to act in small cells ambushing the enemy and then disappearing into the wilderness without a trace.
Magister: Witch (Probably transformation or animal patron) - This mysterious woman seeks to unlock the secrets of the Stolen Land, and appease her mysterious First World patron.
The Mercenarocrats
Baron: Fighter - This soldier of Fortune has taken the charter into the Stolen Lands as a method of seeking his fortune. His mercenary company a team of specialists to take the land by force.
Magister: Alchemist - This brilliant alchemist (the demolitions specialist) uses his talents to explode anything that gets in the kingdom's way.
General: Barbarian - What is best in life? (For added fun make him a worshipper of Gorum).
High Priest: Cleric of Gorum - Because war is fun.
The Crusaders
Baron: Paladin - Drawn to create a homeland for worshippers of Erastil, the Paladin smites all that is evil, and attempts to convert all that is neutral.
High Priest: Cleric of Erastil - A conscience and soul for the kingdom of crusaders.
Spymaster: Inquisitor of Erastil - There are cults and menaces galore and an Inquisitor is the perfect candidate to root them out.
Councillor: Bard - Spreading the word of Erastil to the people falls to the Councillor.
Bard. number 1 pick. archer type. Lots for him to do
Druid of Erastil, with tank companion to go in front line. Flavoursome and fits very well
Arcane, with a theme on flight and movement. maybe celestial sorceror, maybe a witch
Inquisitor against chaos
You dont really need true frontliner much, or cleric, or wizard and not overly sure on the need for a rogue..
TIME as mentioned above is something you have bucketfuls off
Well, to answer my own question I'd have to say that having two characters with decent charisma is certainly a bonus. I'll have to agree with others here and say that a bard is one of the best choices out there. There are lots of options which can help on the combat front including moving into arcane archer for the ranged builds or dragon disciple for the melee builds.
Given the amount of downtime there is, you can greatly benefit from having one (or even two) people who are adept at crafting magic items. The benefit of having two, of course, is that they can be working at the same time to get more done. A sorcerer fits this bill nicely and also gives you the second charisma-based character. There are lots of useful bloodlines to consider but the draconic, fey and verdant ones stand out as being particularly useful.
For a divine caster, I think the druid is probably best as he can also provide a front-liner due to his animal companion. There should be enough healing available thanks to the bard's help and with the judicious purchase (or crafting) of wands of cure light wounds.
Finally, the best choice for a martial character would have to be the ranger. His skills will come in to play here and there but his favoured enemy ability is tremendously useful, particularly if make the usually inferior choice of selecting the companion bond. Humans are encountered throughout the campaign should just about be maxed out for his favoured enemy bonus (bandits, Stag Lord, Drelev, barbarians, Armag, Irovetti, etc). Other good choices include giants which will benefit against the trolls in books 2 and 4 as well as the hill and frost giants in books 4 through 6, magical beasts which occur throughout but usually in one-off encounters (giant owlbear!), undead for book 3 since there is no cleric or paladin in this party and they represent a number of encounters that will occur without many rests.
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I think this is one of the few written AP's that will work no matter what kind of party comes together.
For absolute, rock-you-face, can't lose awesomeness, I would recommend:
Inquisitor of Erastil
Infernal Bloodline Sorcerer
Switch-Hitter Fighter
Feather/Growth Domain Cleric of Erastil.
Everyone takes Stealth, Perception, and at least a little survival.
Anything Human/Humanoid gets charmed or just talked nicely to.
Anything monstrous eats deathly arrows of doom from hundreds of yards away.
I would recommend the following, although anything can work and will have moments to shine:
Paladin - Usefulness of High Charisma trumps fact not all opponents are evil (but there is still penty of evil butt to kick)
Ranger - Tracking and survival skills can be huge in early game. I like the archer build, with fey and magical beast favorite enemies.
Sorcerer or Wizard - Crafting Wizard and High Charisma Sorcerer both incredibly useful.
Bard - Skills, Spellcasting and did I mention high Charisma is useful?
Druid of Erastil has been a great cornerstone of our group; if I had to change the Druid in any way, I'd have taken Verminheart. Currently, Vermin and Undead are the party's weak point, most manageable because they're dumb enough to run straight into whatever the party has set up.
Party Fighter dual-wields Cold Iron weapons, so when the party encounters Fey, he can dice them up pretty well if he isn't neutralized first. Fey have the lowest Hit Dice for their CR than any creature type, so when their DR is ignored, that's a big hedge against them. If I were him, I'd get something that would help me close with my enemies and keep them there.
Our charger Cleric is pretty great when we're out in the open, not so much for fights indoors. If I were him, I'd start looking around for things that would allow my mount to ignore difficult terrains.
The wizard has worked wonders. He is a big fan of Grease, and a spell -- I forget the name -- that deals 5 (bludgeoning?) damage and makes it difficult terrain. Additionally, somebody now casts a campfire-related spell that projects an opaque screen that deals Fire damage when you step inside; that single-handedly ruined an ambush from Tatzlwyrms last session.
I think I'd go with the following:
Wizard: item creation, plus lots of ability to pick your fights and tailor your spells for them. Plus, this is one adventure path where an innocuous familiar could come in handy, not least to accompany the ranger on scouting missions.
Ranger: quintessential outdoor character where scouting will help the rest of the party. Aids the wizard in prepping spells.
Witch: buffing, secondary healer, and hexes will almost always be useful in this kind of campaign.
Druid: melee build with animal companion bruiser, summoning secondary, healing tertiary.
A little light on healing, but three people can wield a cure wand. With a wizard and a druid, summoned monsters and allies can litter the field, all benefiting from witch buffs. Ranger's the skill monkey.
The party I GM for is the following:
King: Cavalier - Order of the Dragon. HUGE combat synergies, making the fighters and summoned goons absurdly powerful. Why have a bard when you have something more than twice as strong? Also lots of opportunity to bring a horse.
General: Vanilla Fighter going Sword&Board. Does absurd damage, have absurd AC.
Treasurer: Universalist Wizard. Focusing on debuffs, control and buffs. Mind-affecting spells in kingmaker is almost game-breaking. Infinite downtime and infinite money means all the loot you'd ever want.
High Priestess: Cleric of Sarenrae. Buffs, summons and heals. Got a paladin cohort to add to the damage output she avoids.
We just started part 6, and apart from the parts where I have gone out of my way to up the challenge, they have totally destroyed the opposition. Nothing short of very bad choices (Charge! And leave the healer behind!) and exceptional rolling have ever posed a real challenge.
our party is an all halfling party (halflings need a homeland too)
general zapp bramblethorn cavalier-order of the cockatrice rides a boar
spymaster percy roaringboar ranger (bow combat style)
magister daisy roaringboar alchemist likes mutagens and bombs
high priest johnny appleseed druid plant domain
queen odette dragontooth witch elements patron
by the way kingmaker was made for cavaliers.
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My group is a little different and definitely not optimized, though I see many of my players characters mentioned above, just not all together.
Witch (Female Human, *uses apples for potions)
Infernal Sorceress (Female Human from Cheliax, Grand Diplomat)
Paladin of Erastil (Male human, mounted combat, Ruler)
Barbarian/Battle Oracle (Male Human, Warden)
Ranger/Barbarian/Ninja (Male Half-Orc, Assassin)
Urban Ranger (Male Human, Spymaster, *PCs kingdom is chosen community)
Out of that group, the four that would still work without the other two, would be the Witch, Sorceress, Barbarian/Battle Oracle, and Urban Ranger.