Okay, so from running the DPR math with a very handy calculating google doc (Courtesy of Ogre and a the boards), its obvious that as so many people say, two weapon fighting isn't as good as two-handed fighting, for more feats and no reason.
The MAD will always kill you, despite getting between level 1-12 about +1 AC, +2 Ref, +2 Init, +2 on ranged attack rolls, and +2 on CMD, and a few skills. However you do 75% as much damage as the two handed fighter if your lucky.
Also, I've seen it be a widely held opinion that Double Slice (and Two Weapon Defense) aren't gret feats. So how about:
- DOUBLE SLICE
Your off-hand weapon while dual-wielding strikes with greater power.
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: Add your Strength bonus to damage rolls made with your off-hand weapon. In addition, your off hand weapon counts as a one-handed weapon for the purposes of power attack, so you +2 damage per -1 to attack rolls.
Normal: You normally add only half of your Strength modifier to damage rolls made with a weapon wielded in your off-hand and off-hand weapons only get half of the bonus from power attack.
I figure it increase full BAB classes power with TWF, but sneak attacking characters won't be using power attack anyway, so it shouldn't alter their damage.
So if you two weapon fight, you'll do about 80% damage, assuming you wield two identical light weapons, you shouldn't suffer as much in feats or damage. Maybe 90% damage would be a better goal, but I think all of the little side benefits from your higher Dex are quite nice.
Are there any problems I'm not seeing with this? Or more things that can be done to easily boost Two-Weapon Fighting?
Useful. I would also consider having ITWF cover all itirative attacks so it scales better (and if you can make attacks at -10/-15 accurate enough, more power to you) with GTWF giving another bonus, such as less penalty to attack. It is strange that the more prohibitive the TWF feat requirements become, the weaker the benefit seems to be.
Okay, so from running the DPR math with a very handy calculating google doc (Courtesy of Ogre and a the boards), its obvious that as so many people say, two weapon fighting isn't as good as two-handed fighting, for more feats and no reason.
The MAD will always kill you, despite getting between level 1-12 about +1 AC, +2 Ref, +2 Init, +2 on ranged attack rolls, and +2 on CMD, and a few skills. However you do 75% as much damage as the two handed fighter if your lucky.
Also, I've seen it be a widely held opinion that Double Slice (and Two Weapon Defense) aren't gret feats. So how about:
- DOUBLE SLICE
Your off-hand weapon while dual-wielding strikes with greater power.
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: Add your Strength bonus to damage rolls made with your off-hand weapon. In addition, your off hand weapon counts as a one-handed weapon for the purposes of power attack, so you +2 damage per -1 to attack rolls.
Normal: You normally add only half of your Strength modifier to damage rolls made with a weapon wielded in your off-hand and off-hand weapons only get half of the bonus from power attack.
I figure it increase full BAB classes power with TWF, but sneak attacking characters won't be using power attack anyway, so it shouldn't alter their damage.
So if you two weapon fight, you'll do about 80% damage, assuming you wield two identical light weapons, you shouldn't suffer as much in feats or damage. Maybe 90% damage would be a better goal, but I think all of the little side benefits from your higher Dex are quite nice.
Are there any problems I'm not seeing with this? Or more things that can be done to easily boost Two-Weapon Fighting?
Critical fighting is more beneficial for those that focus on crits because of the critical feats in the core book. Being able to inflict status affects is really powerful. The stunning critical makes you staggered even if you make the save. That means that you get one action while the TWF'er is chopping you up.
Two handed weapons are better for those that care about damage mostly. If TWF'ing can do the status affects, and equal two handed weapon then a new imbalance has been created.
Good point. But all of that fun critical fighting stuff doesn't come into the game until after 10th level really. I'm not trying to get their damage equal, but simply close the gap a bit. Because the gap is way bigger than it should be. If nothing else two-handed fighting costs no feats except power attack, which all fighting men and women have to get anyway.
Two weapon fighting gives you on average +2 AC, +2 Reflex and +2 init as an advantage. Which is 3 and a half feats. So I would like if you could get close to 80-90% Two handed damage after spending that amount of feats on two weapon fighting. Its already a greatly maligned type of fighting for anyone not a rogue.
Similarly, I'd slightly boost shield-fighting, but it will stay lower than both. At around 65-75% damage, as thats all the extra AC really nets you.
I like this. Critical feats won't generally be appearing in my games anyway, since I always seem to play at reasonably low levels. I will say it becomes an exceptionally powerful feat though.
Okay. So Two Weapon Fighters will have probably one constiturion bonus less than a two handed fighter.
This puts him behind in toughness, and a trait equivalently. He gets 2 high initiative, which is a trait. So that balances out. He also gets 2 reflex which is feat. So so far they are equivalent. The two weapon fighter will have 1-2 AC higher than the two handed fighter. While technically worth 1-2 feats, their are not that many feats a two weapon fighter can take for extra AC. So if the two weapon fighter can catch up to 85-90% two handed damage from level 1-10 with 3 extra feats, thats fairly okay, if still int he two handed fighters favor.
My suggestion is that the following changes be made to these feats:
Two Weapon Fighting: When using the same weapon in both hands reduce the two weapon fighting penalty by 1.
Double Slice: You may add the full bonus from power attack to your off-hand weapon.
This still requires Str 16, and Dex 16 (15 points in point buy after racial bonus) at first level, compared to an 18 (10 points in point buy after racial bonus) Str for the two handed fighter. So its hardly game breaking, but goes a way to having the two weapon fighter catch up, with only superficial changes to the system.
Seems fair to me.
I instead simply merged double slice and greater two-weapon fighting into Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, as a 3-for-1 deal.
Thats a pretty solid way to do it too, I like the idea of reducing all the extra feats it takes to fight in any other school.