Player's Options: Flaws is now available at DriveThruRPG and Your Games Now. It should be available here at Paizo.com very, very soon!
Player's Options: Flaws is now available at DriveThruRPG and Your Games Now. It should be available here at Paizo.com very, very soon!
Already? Sweet!
And now available here at Paizo!
Is this similar to what was introduced in D&D during the 3.0 days in Unearthed Arcana where you take a flaw in order to pick up another feat?
Is this similar to what was introduced in D&D during the 3.0 days in Unearthed Arcana where you take a flaw in order to pick up another feat?
I actually do not recall the 3.0 flaws at all. I'll have to go back and check that out and see how similar we are. For our product, you take a flaw and you can either take a bonus feat or 3 bonus skill points. You can take up to 2 flaws, but you can only take a single bonus feat (so if you take two flaws and want a bonus feat, you have to take the skill points for the other flaw).
We also included rules for buying off a flaw down the road, since many flawed heroes of fantasy learn to overcome their flaws, not just live with them.
Is this similar to what was introduced in D&D during the 3.0 days in Unearthed Arcana where you take a flaw in order to pick up another feat?I actually do not recall the 3.0 flaws at all. I'll have to go back and check that out and see how similar we are. For our product, you take a flaw and you can either take a bonus feat or 3 bonus skill points. You can take up to 2 flaws, but you can only take a single bonus feat (so if you take two flaws and want a bonus feat, you have to take the skill points for the other flaw).
We also included rules for buying off a flaw down the road, since many flawed heroes of fantasy learn to overcome their flaws, not just live with them.
Yeah, the 3.0 flaws gave you a feat per flaw. Glad that it's only 1 feat with this system. However, regardless of intention, some people will use this for powergaming purposes. D: Especially when powergaming is encouraged, like when my GM challenged me and a friend to a death match. >.>
On the plus side, I think these are much better designed than the 3.0 flaws, in the sense of how your character must role play. Much like traits can guide your character concept, these flaws do the same.
...and I think a well role-played flaw is more fun to see than a well role-played trait.
I'm really glad to hear you like it!
Is this similar to what was introduced in D&D during the 3.0 days in Unearthed Arcana where you take a flaw in order to pick up another feat?I actually do not recall the 3.0 flaws at all. I'll have to go back and check that out and see how similar we are. For our product, you take a flaw and you can either take a bonus feat or 3 bonus skill points. You can take up to 2 flaws, but you can only take a single bonus feat (so if you take two flaws and want a bonus feat, you have to take the skill points for the other flaw).
We also included rules for buying off a flaw down the road, since many flawed heroes of fantasy learn to overcome their flaws, not just live with them.
This may have been mentioned elsewhere and I believe you may have responded based on the averages of skill points per average class level gained, but what is to prevent the person from picking up the flaw to pick up a certain feat that allows you five skill points?
I'm trying to remember the name of that feat during the 3.x days. I can't recall if it ever made its way into Pathfinder.
Otherwise, it's not a bad idea as it at least gives you the option of choosing where to place your skill points (or is it more specific as to where those points be slotted - similar to picking up Skill Focus?) versus picking up a feat that would allow you 4 extra slot bonuses to two specific skill sets.
I was mainly curious as the 3.5 campaign I participate in -- the GM allows the PCs to pick up to two flaws as an option if we're wanting to obtain extra feats (per Unearthed Arcana as mentioned by The Chort).
This may have been mentioned elsewhere and I believe you may have responded based on the averages of skill points per average class level gained, but what is to prevent the person from picking up the flaw to pick up a certain feat that allows you five skill points?
I'm trying to remember the name of that feat during the 3.x days. I can't recall if it ever made its way into Pathfinder.
Otherwise, it's not a bad idea as it at least gives you the option of choosing where to place your skill points (or is it more specific as to where those points be slotted - similar to picking up Skill Focus?) versus picking up a feat that would allow you 4 extra slot bonuses to two specific skill sets.
I was mainly curious as the 3.5 campaign I participate in -- the GM allows the PCs to pick up to two flaws as an option if we're wanting to obtain extra feats (per Unearthed Arcana as mentioned by The Chort).
I don't remember that feat either. We did introduce a feat in Paths of Power called Jack of All Trades, which doubles skill points for 1 level, and I suppose someone playing a rogue could take a flaw, then use the bonus feat for that feat and end up with a lot of skill points at that one level. There's always the danger of a power gamer figuring out a way to take advantage of any rule or option, though.
I don't remember that feat either. We did introduce a feat in Paths of Power called Jack of All Trades, which doubles skill points for 1 level, and I suppose someone playing a rogue could take a flaw, then use the bonus feat for that feat and end up with a lot of skill points at that one level. There's always the danger of a power gamer figuring out a way to take advantage of any rule or option, though.
Did a little digging. Expanded Psionics Handbook pg 48.
Checking to see if DSP revised it for Pathfinder. Theirs list:
Benefit: You gain 1 skill point for every Hit Die you possess. You gain 1 skill point whenever you gain a Hit Die (such as when you gain a level). You spend these skill points as normal. You cannot exceed the normal maximum point for your level in any skill.
I suppose that works. =) Either way, I was curious to see if anyone had addressed the issue when "upgrading" from 3.5 rules.
Carry on, gentlemen.
P.S. Care to share an example or two so we can get an idea?
P.S. Care to share an example or two so we can get an idea?
You can check out a sample of the first 4 pages HERE.
Thanks for sharing. Some of those, I'm concerned, may be a bit subjective and would require an organized GM to keep track of each PC's flaws to remind themselves they need to have the PC make that save check before doing something. It'll depend on that PC to actually come forward to remind certain GMs that they need to enable a flaw check. I find it easier for certain flaws to automatically instill a penalty right off the bat so it's already put into place when making the appropriate rolls than to depend on the GM to be reminded to check for it.
The Absent-Minded flaw is an example of what I'm referencing.
Thanks for sharing. Some of those, I'm concerned, may be a bit subjective and would require an organized GM to keep track of each PC's flaws to remind themselves they need to have the PC make that save check before doing something. It'll depend on that PC to actually come forward to remind certain GMs that they need to enable a flaw check. I find it easier for certain flaws to automatically instill a penalty right off the bat so it's already put into place when making the appropriate rolls than to depend on the GM to be reminded to check for it.
The Absent-Minded flaw is an example of what I'm referencing.
Well, sometimes players and GMs are going to have to keep track of the extra options they use. Things like lameness, deafness, etc, can be represented with a straight penalty, because they're constant. Things that aren't as constant or that can be controlled we felt were best represented by using saves. I don't see where it's more complicated than making sure you tell your GM what spells your character is preparing that day - new day begins, you roll your save, and carry on. The fact of the matter is, if you add more stuff into a game, that's more you've got to account for. Using the absent-minded as an example, if we didn't allow a save to "get a grip on things", then we'd just have the GM randomly picking items of your character to be misplaced. That flaw's representing, as an example, the scholar who can recite entire works by Yeats from memory, or even sing the periodic table as a song, but takes 20 minutes to find their car keys and never knows where their cell phone is. But it's never the same thing, and it's not all the time, so there had to be some kind of mechanism for resisting the negative effects.
The same goes for flaws like "Foul-Mouthed" or "Lecherous" - the character's behavior comes naturally to them, and they barely realize they're doing it. But by making a concerted effort (thus, a Will save) they can try to keep it under wraps.
I don't see anything wrong with flaws being something to roleplay instead of merely mechanically account for.
I don't disagree what you said; it's purely a subjective issue that I'm likely to come across with given the groups I currently play in. It is a matter of both the GM and the PC to organize and remind accordingly. I guess with regard to spell-casters, it could be as simple as providing the GM your updated spell list and in that same game-day update, remind him that there's a roll to be made for a flaw, he rolls it in secret, and then depending on the results he'll have the PC put it into application later.
Unfortunately, with the other group that I'm playing Pathfinder, a lot of them are still new at mechanics and working out their role playing rust; thus, it's easier said then done.
Some day, I'll get with an experienced group that digs deeper into the role play aspect. Maybe I'm the alien because I've never played a MMORPG and thus don't have that mindset going in. :P
Thanks for replying.
I don't disagree what you said; it's purely a subjective issue that I'm likely to come across with given the groups I currently play in. It is a matter of both the GM and the PC to organize and remind accordingly. I guess with regard to spell-casters, it could be as simple as providing the GM your updated spell list and in that same game-day update, remind him that there's a roll to be made for a flaw, he rolls it in secret, and then depending on the results he'll have the PC put it into application later.
Unfortunately, with the other group that I'm playing Pathfinder, a lot of them are still new at mechanics and working out their role playing rust; thus, it's easier said then done.
Some day, I'll get with an experienced group that digs deeper into the role play aspect. Maybe I'm the alien because I've never played a MMORPG and thus don't have that mindset going in. :P
Thanks for replying.
Sure, I just wanted to explain the thought process behind it. If you're dealing with new players, you might be better of saving things like traits and flaws, despite their attraction. You don't want to overcomplicate the game for them. Every GM has to know their group and provide something they can all enjoy, after all.
Sure, I just wanted to explain the thought process behind it. If you're dealing with new players, you might be better of saving things like traits and flaws, despite their attraction. You don't want to overcomplicate the game for them. Every GM has to know their group and provide something they can all enjoy, after all.
Yet you hear the clarion cries of 'we want more of these feat thingies!'. XD
Sure, I just wanted to explain the thought process behind it. If you're dealing with new players, you might be better of saving things like traits and flaws, despite their attraction. You don't want to overcomplicate the game for them. Every GM has to know their group and provide something they can all enjoy, after all.Yet you hear the clarion cries of 'we want more of these feat thingies!'. XD
The flaws are the sort of thing I as a GM would make a note of and keep beside me all the time. I do this sort of thing anyway, even before the flaws with mechanics came about. I don't worry about their spells, magic items, feats, because if the player forgets - well, that's their problem. The flaws on the other hand, I'd keep close track of, whether it was a Will save or a flat skill penalty.
As a point of reference, here's the Character Flaws from the SRD as ported from Unearthed Arcana.
As a point of reference, here's the Character Flaws from the SRD as ported from Unearthed Arcana.
Huh. Never even thought to look for such a thing in the SRD. I like ours better anyway. :D
I don't see anything wrong with have flaws that involve a lot of role-playing. It is a role-playing game, after all...
Looking over the SRD, it seems there a couple that are similar to what we were going for, but overall they're quite different.
+1 Nice stuff.
Seems familiar somehow.
Although I think the DC 15 Will save is a bit harsh for some of these flaws. Also, there were a few flaws that I thought could have been included like Addiction or Blasphemous.
+1 Nice stuff.
Seems familiar somehow.
Although I think the DC 15 Will save is a bit harsh for some of these flaws. Also, there were a few flaws that I thought could have been included like Addiction or Blasphemous.
We actually did have those on the drawing board, but we decided we didn't want to create a full addiction mechanic for this short product but may include it in a larger product. As for Blasphemous, we're currently working on a Heretic variant for Clerics in Paths of Power 2.
Awesome. I look forward to it.
And Player's Options: Flaws was ranked #7 on the April 22 edition of RPG Countdown! w00t!
And for everyone who wanted more, Flaws II: Electric Boogaloo is available now here and at RPGNow.