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Johns has way more impressive stuff on his resume. Plus, he got his career started by calling up Richard Donner's office and not hanging up until he got to talk to Donner. Then he convinced the dude to give him a job. That's some even bigger stones there.Well, yes, but the job in question was fetching coffee for Richard Donner, so, er, yeah, well done him.
An internship. Which, I'm sure, consists of slightly more than just fetching coffee. Besides, it was a foot in the door with an excellent director (and mentor), and the start of his career. Everyone starts somewhere.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Quick question for which I may not want to hear the answer: Is Cassandra Cain still completely screwed up? The last I heard she was still in the hands of the writer that completely and utterly derped her up beyond recognition.
Evil Cassie was retconned away with the explaination that Slade was pumping her full of 'magic crazy serum'. Same thing for Rose. She's currently in limbo with 'plans' Red Robin has her in Hong Kong, and we've heard she might show up in Batman Inc.
Gail Simone thought she had Cassie for Birds of Prey, even tweeted it, but she was yanked away by editorial.
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DC's 'legacy' characters all have some issues. I mean the initial side kicks have grown up (or been killed) but the legacy characters don't always do well.
I don't see why we can have five Green Lanterns (of Earth) two Batmen, three Flashes (4 if you include Bart) and not have two Atoms, two Wildcats, etc.
(Though I think I like Jenni more than a 'real' Green Lantern anyway).
I don't buy the 'killing minorities' thing. In fact I find it really ironic in the MU as opposed to the DCU. It doesn't matter to me that Jamie is Hispanic, or that Ryan is Asian, or that Roy is part first peoples. I read the books for the character, not the pedigree.
(not to mention I don't recall anyone crying that Garth being killed was another 'minority death' Atlanteans aren't a minority?)
I do mind when a character is killed to prove the killer's 'bad assery' or to 'make room'. Killing Holly to create room for Hank, or Gen to make room for Jason strikes me as lazy writing. (and don't get me started on killing Garth) Killing Ryan to 'prove' how evil Jade and Slade are is the same thing.
Erik's right about one thing, writers have their favourites that ebb and flow in time. If I was writing an X-book, I'd have 'my team' be Peter, Illyana, Dani, Cecillie (sp) Betsy, AoA Creed, and Roberto. Dani would be in charge, Betsy provides telepathy, Peter is the brick, Roberto is the blaster, Creed is the brawler and Illyana is the transporter. Cecelie is special effects, but she can also play off of the others. Peter's power is similar, but he can turn it off. Dani's a former mutant, which she wishes she was. Roberto could be his flirty self, but how does she react to that when you look at her nature? Plus AoA Sabertooth has history with Betsy, and I actually like him better than Wolverine.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Which means you probably save a lot of money on Martian Manhunter comics. The Ostrander/Mandrake series must have saved you hundreds of dollarsThis is not the type of comment I expect from a guy with "publisher" attached to his name. It is the kind I expect from, well, I'd rather not say, except to suggest you have someone else in your office read the response and see how they interpret it.
I'm not sure I understand. I was just trying so say (a bit snarkily) that the Ostrander series, of which I purchased every single issue, was a terrible mess. I presume you are a fan of the character, so I'd be interested in hearing a rebuttal.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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And lest anyone find that criticism "unpublisherly," I should point out that DC does have some solid minority characters, too, like the aforementioned Black Lightning and Cyborg. As a long-time fan of the company, I'd prefer they do more with characters like this than invent new ones that simply steal cache by donning the outfits of older, beloved characters.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Actually, both of those were among the better issues of the series. In general it was an uninspired slot-filler with art by Tom Mandrake, who I loved on GrimJack but who mostly just seemed tired and uninspired with this series.
The villains were all absolutely pathetic, and the whole thing had almost no fun to it. I think they knew the series was in trouble by the time they did the issues you mention, which may have been an attempt to right the ship.
I really like Martian Manhunter as a character, too, but he has suffered from a LOT of really bad comics, in my view.
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I really like Martian Manhunter as a character, too, but he has suffered from a LOT of really bad comics, in my view.He is very difficult to write as anything other than a supporting character, sadly. However, he is one of the best supporting characters in comics. It also makes those stories where he is a good primary character stand out even more.
MM is at his best when he's with the Justice League.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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It didn't help that Ostrander added even more powers early in his run (J'onn can absorb mass now! Woo hoo!). The Martian Manhunter is already one of the biggest munchkin superheroes in DC, so it's not like he was lacking in the power department. The guy basically has all of Superman's power, but he can also phase, change his shape, communicate telepathically, etc. It's sort of like adding insult to injury.
Every time there's a big multiversal crossover, Ultra-Boy must get REALLY jealous every time J'onn J'onz walks into the room.
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Actually, both of those were among the better issues of the series. In general it was an uninspired slot-filler with art by Tom Mandrake, who I loved on GrimJack but who mostly just seemed tired and uninspired with this series.
The villains were all absolutely pathetic, and the whole thing had almost no fun to it. I think they knew the series was in trouble by the time they did the issues you mention, which may have been an attempt to right the ship.
I really like Martian Manhunter as a character, too, but he has suffered from a LOT of really bad comics, in my view.
As a big Martian Manhunter fan who also collected the entire Ostrander run (and also thought it could have been better), I'm curious: Have you ever read the '88 four issue miniseries Martian Manhunter by DeMatteis? If so, what did you think about it? Personally, I found it to be one of the most interesting storylines ever, and one of the best character re-defining stories.
Also, I consider the 80s JLA Annual #1 to be one of the better J'onn centirc stories of that run.
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It was just called Martian Manhunter - a 4 issue miniseries written by DeMatteis, with art by Mark Badger. I know there are some elements from the series that carried over into the Ostrander series (J'onn's true form, names of some of the martian gods, stuff about his wife and daughter), but in my own opinion, it was a far superior storyline. Almost poetic in some ways. If you ever get the chance, read it.
Edit: Here's a bit from Wikipedia on the DeMatteis series:
The 1988 four issue miniseries Martian Manhunter by J.M. DeMatteis and Mark Badger further redefined the character and changed a number of important aspects of both his character and his origin story. It is revealed that Dr. Erdel did not die and that the character's humanoid appearance was due to physiological trauma and attempts to block out the death of his race, his familiar appearance a "compromise" between his true form and a human appearance based upon Erdel's mental concept of what a Martian should look like. Later series retcon that his real form is private and that, even on Mars, his "public" appearance was the familiar version. The native name for Mars is said to be "Ma'aleca'andra" in his native tongue (a nod to "Malacandra", the name used by the inhabitants of Mars in C. S. Lewis' novel Out of the Silent Planet). The series also adds to canon, the idea that J'onzz was not only displaced in space but in time and the Martian race, including J'onzz' wife and daughter, has been dead for thousands of years.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I guess I don't get why it is so offensive to you guys that I might sound a bit bitter in an off-topic discussion about comic books.
If I need to censor my comments when I'm not even talking about Paizo stuff, perhaps I will just refrain from participating in these discussions.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I guess. I was simply making a joke about how the Ostrander Martian Manhunter sucked and must have saved you hundreds of dollars (dollars I actually spent on every issue, btw).
I get what you are saying, but you guys are coming off a little touchy, in my opinion. I think your adoration of the Martian Manhunter has increased your sensitivity.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I guess I don't get why it is so offensive to you guys that I might sound a bit bitter in an off-topic discussion about comic books.
If I need to censor my comments when I'm not even talking about Paizo stuff, perhaps I will just refrain from participating in these discussions.
Oh gods Eric. I could care less about self censorship. I'm just saying that your sarcasm didn't come through in text, so it could be 'read' as more bitter than you intended.
I don't expect you to self censor. Just advising how I (and apparently others) read your text.
Oh, and I forgot Steel. Peter David once said the She Hulk should be "our [Marvel's] Wonder Woman." Steel should be DC's Tony Stark.
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Gotta agree that minority characters who are designed as such from the ground up seem to have more traction than those that replace old white dudes.
Vixen, for instance, is a great character, and she might get whacked for some spurious reason, but at least she won't be pushed off-screen or killed off so that the 'silver age Vixen' can come back.
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The only exception I am aware of is the new Mr. Terrific. Of course, he replaced a dead for decades white guy, so things are a little different with him.
I think Steel could qualify with some work (Superman Legacy).
What I'd do in a Steel Comic
I'd 'Nightwing' Steel, moving him out of Metropolis and down to a city in DC Georgia (Maybe Savannah) Have him start up his own company making 'low tech' (i.e. non super powered) suits for miners, cops, etc. Give him contacts with Waynetech, Starr industries, Kord industries, STAR Labs, etc. Reconcile him with Natasha, make her Pepper to his Tony (w/o all the sexual innuendo of course) First series of adventures would pit him against an inner city gang, armed with high tech weapons (Apokolyps tech left over from FC?) Once he defeats the gang (Latino to avoid the 'black gang banger' stereotype, he becomes more involved in the community, kind of mixing Tony Stark captial with Tim Wayne activism. In fact, Tim would be a good guest star, and he would already have ties with the Bat family, and the JSA though Starr industries.
Eventually build him up as kind of a cross between Dick "Everyone knows and trusts me" Greyson and Barbara "I'm not really dead" Gordon for the tech oriented characters.
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If I need to censor my comments when I'm not even talking about Paizo stuff, perhaps I will just refrain from participating in these discussions.
Sad zombie would be sad. I enjoy conversing with most of the Paizo staff, yourself included oh one-eyed avatary one! Even if you wouldn't accept my Friend request on Facebook. ;)
The only exception I am aware of is the new Mr. Terrific. Of course, he replaced a dead for decades white guy, so things are a little different with him.I think Steel could qualify with some work (Superman Legacy).
What I'd do in a Steel Comic
** spoiler omitted **
I'd read this book in a heartbeat.
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The only exception I am aware of is the new Mr. Terrific. Of course, he replaced a dead for decades white guy, so things are a little different with him.I think Steel could qualify with some work (Superman Legacy).
What I'd do in a Steel Comic
** spoiler omitted **
I like that idea for Steel. Removing him completely from the shadow of Superman would be a great step. (From a business standpoint, he'd likely get some good taxbreaks moving to a less built-up 'metropolitan' area, and moving the heck away from competing with every other Metropolis-based tech company, like Star Labs or Lex's company du jour could only be a bonus.)
I sometimes wonder what the purpose of dragging Cyborg onto the new JLA was (or inventing the new Mr. Terrific at all*), when Steel is just sort of sitting around. It seems a bit two-dimensional for Cyborg to have become essentially 'Steel, Jr.' in the recent JLA run, when he's never really been all that much of a tech-guy, by choice, more a jock who got 'borged up.**
[*Not that I don't think Mr. Terrific is 100x cooler than the original dude, who was kind of an engima to me. A lot of those old school heroes, like the original Sandman, I just never really 'got,' so I'm not terribly sad to see someone come along and revamp them (as happened with Sandman and Swamp Thing) or replace them (with the new Mr. Terrific).]
[**A different pet peeve of mine with minority characters is that white characters are more likely to be inventors of their own powers, such as Lyle Norg with his invisibility serum or Atom with his belt, while minority characters or women who get the same powers get them as a result of something a white man did to them, as with Luke Cage, or a white man invented, as with Black Goliath. Mar-Vell gains his powers as a birthright, or as rewards for service. Carol Danvers is tied to a table and experimented on by aliens. Bruce Banner does something stupid and noble, and is irradiated by his own invention. Jennifer Walters gets to be a victim, who gets her powers as a hand me down from his blood transfusion. Etc. There are plenty of counter-examples, and, indeed, Jennifer is much less of a helpless victim of her powers than Bruce is, which is a nice role-reversal from the 'women can't handle power' trope that seems to afflict many other powerful female characters (such as Jean and Wanda). It's still annoying that is as common as it is, for white men to seem more commonly to earn or develop their powers somehow, while they tend to be oh-so-graciously bestowed (or inflicted) upon minorities or women.]
Legacies of Superman and Batman, are, I think, a bit easier to swallow, because they'll never *replace* Superman or Batman (well, except for gimmicky 'death events' like when Steel was introduced, or this recent Bat-nonsense, but nobody believed that would last...).
Steel (or Nightwing, or Conner Kent, or the various Robins, Batwomen, Batgirls, etc.) will never replace the originals, so I think they get away with stuff that Conner Hawke or Ryan Choi or Wally West or Kyle Rayner will never get away with, because those characters did effectively replace the 'original,' for longer than a year-long 'death event.'
Put me in the John's camp..He gave us back the Legion of SuperHeroes the way it should be..Silver Age for the Win
The only titles I buy outside of Brightest Day are Adventure,Gotham City Sirens(RIP) and Birds of Prey.
An internship. Which, I'm sure, consists of slightly more than just fetching coffee.
I met a bunch of people from DC and I gave them a tour of the set, fetching Richard Donner's coffee and spilling it on myself.
So yes, you're right, there was spillage involved too.
An internship. Which, I'm sure, consists of slightly more than just fetching coffee.I met a bunch of people from DC and I gave them a tour of the set, fetching Richard Donner's coffee and spilling it on myself.So yes, you're right, there was spillage involved too.
From Wikipedia:
Johns started off copying scripts, and after about two months, was hired as a runner, or production assistant for Donner, whom Johns regards as his mentor
Also from Wikipedia:
In unionized television and feature film, production assistants are usually divided into different categories: "Set PA", "Truck PA", "Office PA or Set Runner" and "Extra PA or Daily" - Variations exist depending on a show's structure or region of the United States or Canada.
Office PAs' usually spend most hours in the respective show's production office handling such tasks as phones, deliveries, script copies, lunch pick-ups, and related tasks in coordination with the production manager and production coordinator.
So, yes, there was more than just carrying and spilling coffee. Maybe when you convince a well-known director to give you a job after talking with him on the phone, you could revisit this issue.
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[*Not that I don't think Mr. Terrific is 100x cooler than the original dude, who was kind of an engima to me. A lot of those old school heroes, like the original Sandman, I just never really 'got,' so I'm not terribly sad to see someone come along and revamp them (as happened with Sandman and Swamp Thing) or replace them (with the new Mr. Terrific).]From the "Golden Age" trade they describe the original Mr. Terrific as the guy who was good at everything, and that it "diluted his intensity."
The new one seems to have some of the same gimmick, a superheroic Jack-of-All-Trades type. He isn't really the best at anything, but he can keep up with just about anybody in any field. The guy managed to track Batman in one JSA comic, plus he works as an OR nurse alongside Dr. Midnight, plus he invents stuff, plus he has managed to do things with magic if needed.
At least according to Final Crisis, he does have one 'power' being invisible to machinery.
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<necromantic rites>
"Rise! RISE FROM THE DEAD!"
Mwuah ha ha ha ha ha!!
*ahem*
So, what's the thoughts on the DC Relaunch?
My Wallet is happy.
So far, I've gone from Batman & Robin, Batman, Detective Comics, Batgirl, Red Robin, Superboy, Birds of Prey, Justice League, Teen Titans...
To Nightwing.
To the first guy that posted that marvel's writing is better than DC, I respectfully disagree. This has never been true for me (at least in the past 35 years :)). I think Marvel started screwing the pooch with the X-flood and Spidey clones. Both publishers had ups and downs but overall DC has been better, YMMV.
To Erik, don't censor your posts, they are opinions and it's a forum discussion after all.
PS. Brubaker's current Cap sucks.
PPS. Loved Mark Waid on Flash and Cap, hate Firestorm. So glad he refused.
Forgot to nod to Johns.
Sorry for the multiple posts.
Concerning the older/younger versions of heroes, I definately prefer the classics EXCEPT in the case of the Barry/Wally Flash issue. Wally was better written than Barry ever was IMHO. Seeing Vic Stone as a JLA launch character is interesting and welcomed too.
Worst comic ever btw goes to DC iirc, The Heckler.
John's has seven power rings are his side and Joey Q. has a single cosmic cube.
Geoff John's wins!
John's has seven power rings are his side and Joey Q. has a single cosmic cube.
Geoff John's wins!
Cosmic Cubes and 7 gems in a gauntlet.
Though Geoff is definately pulling ahead in the 'destroying my childhood' race.
Marvel has the better villain in terms of Thanos. But I still dig the Anti-Monitor. I just wish he had a better name....
While I am a big fan of Geoff Johns' work on the Green Lantern books, I have not been a fan of his leadership in this DC Comics "reboot".
Overall, for my money Joe Quesada is the man. I am a much bigger fan of Marvel than DC. Marvel's characters seem more "real", while DC's feel like stunted heroic stereotypes. Also, the quality of DC Comics has been going down the chute (with the exception of the GL books, in my opinion), Marvel has just been getting better and better lately. I generally hate crossovers, but Fear Itself has been outstanding.
I do have an issue with Spider Man and Wolverine seemingly being members of every super team in the Marvel Universe, but that's a trifling issue to me.
As an overall "leader", I think Joe has a big edge over Geoff, but I really do enjoy Geoff Johns' work as a writer.
While I am a big fan of Geoff Johns' work on the Green Lantern books, I have not been a fan of his leadership in this DC Comics "reboot".
Overall, for my money Joe Quesada is the man. I am a much bigger fan of Marvel than DC. Marvel's characters seem more "real", while DC's feel like stunted heroic stereotypes. Also, the quality of DC Comics has been going down the chute (with the exception of the GL books, in my opinion), Marvel has just been getting better and better lately. I generally hate crossovers, but Fear Itself has been outstanding.
I do have an issue with Spider Man and Wolverine seemingly being members of every super team in the Marvel Universe, but that's a trifling issue to me.
As an overall "leader", I think Joe has a big edge over Geoff, but I really do enjoy Geoff Johns' work as a writer.
Yes, fear itself has been an excellent read. But DC Comics should adopt the "Geoff Johns" mold of writing. He has an incredible mind for detail, relationships and dialouge. The big three criteria I look for in writing. My big gripe with DC is their artist pool. At times, it just sucks.