I don't really think that battlefield intimidation is the same as bullying someone or finding a way to scare someone into doing just about anything for you. As written I think Intimidation on a socially is too easy. Striking fear into dragons, and outsiders who normally only cow to the Dukes of Hell, or Demon Lords should not be easy for a mortal. Of course if you can make a DC 40 intimidate check I guess that makes you pretty scary in your own right.
Below is my formula for intimidation. I ran the numbers and they seemed ok. I am now putting them on the board to see if anyone can break them.
PS:I am sure there is a way to do so, but the main goal is to see how much trouble it takes to trivialive the formulas.
Intimidation in combat to cause the shaken condition
10+CR/Level+wis mod
If the monster has ranks in sense motive the DC is 10 + sense motive modifier
Social = 15+CR/Character Level+wis mod.
If the monster is a 0HD(teifling, humans, etc) race I will use Character Level.
If the monsters is a creature in its own right(has racial HD) I will use the CR as the base number.
bump
So to clarify, those are the DC's for your intimidation roll, correct?
So to clarify, those are the DC's for your intimidation roll, correct?
Yes.
The 10+.... is for the one to make someone shaken in combat.
The 15+.... is for getting someone to cooperate in a social situation such as getting an NPC to tell you who he works for or something similar.
Your sense motive addition doesn't adhere to any logical consistency.
Filthy Larry: "I intimidate him."
GM: *roll-roll-roll* "He knows how you really feel."
Filthy Larry: "I really want to cut off sensitive parts of his body and stuff them down his throat while singing the anthem of my God-Forsworn nation of darkness and then bathe in his slow-leaking blood while he chokes on his own hewn digits."
Table: ...
GM: "... The DC goes down by ten."
So what you've got here is 'I've raised the DC by 5 to stop social intimidation from working'? Why? Isn't the +/-4 size modifier enough for that? Or the automatic 'bonus to anything that is effective against fear saves' modifier for things like Nymphs? (Nymphs, like Paladins, can't be intimidated by normal means...)
HD is virtually ALWAYS higher than CR. Only when you have a fragile creature with potent powers at his disposal do you end up with the other situation.
I had forgotten about the size modifier. I will run some numbers and readjust or drop the idea. I should be back with the results tomorrow or I guess I should say later today.
Your sense motive addition doesn't adhere to any logical consistency.
+1
On the other hand, I can see a situation where the person trying to do the intimidating is bluffing, in which case a GM might have the characters make an opposed bluff vs. Sense motive roll, and adjust the subsequent Intimidate roll according to the outcome.
My biggest problem with intimidate, especially in combat, is its reliance on Charisma. So I'm to believe that in the heat of battle, the suave, smooth-tongued bard is more intimidating than the hard-eyed fighter weilding a greataxe?
Yes, yes, I know all the arguments about how Charisma is more than look or even way with words, that it's force of personality, presence. But that can be highly situational. The problem is that all the situational modifiers and even the feat Intimidating Prowess stack on top of a low CHA modifier, so that they are still at a disadvantage.
Given that intimidation is a contest of wills, my GM solved the problem by allowing Intimidate to be based on the better of CHA or WIS.
Filthy Larry: "I intimidate him."
GM: *roll-roll-roll* "He knows how you really feel."
Filthy Larry: "I really want to cut off sensitive parts of his body and stuff them down his throat while singing the anthem of my God-Forsworn nation of darkness and then bathe in his slow-leaking blood while he chokes on his own hewn digits."
Table: ...
GM: "... The DC goes down by ten."
Entirely off-topic, but I'll be laughing because of this all day now. Thanks :)
Your sense motive addition doesn't adhere to any logical consistency.
Filthy Larry: "I intimidate him."
GM: *roll-roll-roll* "He knows how you really feel."
Filthy Larry: "I really want to cut off sensitive parts of his body and stuff them down his throat while singing the anthem of my God-Forsworn nation of darkness and then bathe in his slow-leaking blood while he chokes on his own hewn digits."
Table: ...
GM: "... The DC goes down by ten."So what you've got here is 'I've raised the DC by 5 to stop social intimidation from working'? Why? Isn't the +/-4 size modifier enough for that? Or the automatic 'bonus to anything that is effective against fear saves' modifier for things like Nymphs? (Nymphs, like Paladins, can't be intimidated by normal means...)
HD is virtually ALWAYS higher than CR. Only when you have a fragile creature with potent powers at his disposal do you end up with the other situation.
Guardian Naga
10+HD(12)+Large(4)+Wis mod(4)=28Level 10 character not optimized for intimidate
Levels (10)+ cha mod(4)+class skill(3)=17
Optimized
Levels (10)+ cha mod(6)+class skill(3)+skill focus(6)=25
Evil monster players might not want to fight, but need to get info from. CR 14
Nalfeshnee and Adult red dragons both 38
I guess the rule is fine as is.