| Mordraith |
Assuming the GM allows this class from 3.5 Complete Arcane, would a Warlock be a suitable class for Kingmaker?
The character in particular is of noble descent. Heir to the throne of a small and far away kingdom, his jealous brother staged a coup when their aging father died, murdered the character wife and children, and made it look like the character had done it. Barely escaping with his life, traumatized by the tragedy, the character wandered aimlessly, doing his best to survive alone in the wild.
In his aimless wandering, the character started to have gruesome visions and hear voices whispering him of dark deeds and vengeance for his murdered family. To sum the story up, his once upstanding moral character has been shattered, and he strikes a deal with a foreign entity which give him eldritch powers to sate his thirst for vengeance. Seeing the pain and chaos such a grief stricken person would spread when granted with such powers seems payment enough for the entity, at least at fist glance.
The goal of the character is basically to amass as much wealth and power (both personnal and social) to be able to reclaim his birthright and sate his thirst for vengeance.
So, would this would be Warlock King be suitable for Kingmaker, both sotry and mechanically wise?
calagnar
|
Warlock hase failed mechanically from the start. There is nothing it can do better then any other character. It's damage well behind any blaster sorcerer. And if you don't know by now thats one of the worst types of caster there is. Blasters can not keap up with damage as you level. Sorcerer or Oracle is much better for doing what you want mechanically. Witch is better from a role playing point of view. After reading the back ground.
I'm DMing Kingmaker. So with out givine away the plot. No I don't think a Warlock or Sorcerer make very good kings. Stat wise they fit but over all they lack some key skills you will want.
My personl top picks for best king.
Bard>Oracle>Cleric>Sorcerer=Warlock
For the Witch. There are Grand Diplomat, Magister, Spy Master, and Treasurer. All are Int based leardership post.
In my game I prevented a large problem. Befor we started I made the players pick there leadership position. To make sure we did not have 2 or 3 people think they where all making a character to be king.
| wraithstrike |
Assuming the GM allows this class from 3.5 Complete Arcane, would a Warlock be a suitable class for Kingmaker?
The character in particular is of noble descent. Heir to the throne of a small and far away kingdom, his jealous brother staged a coup when their aging father died, murdered the character wife and children, and made it look like the character had done it. Barely escaping with his life, traumatized by the tragedy, the character wandered aimlessly, doing his best to survive alone in the wild.
In his aimless wandering, the character started to have gruesome visions and hear voices whispering him of dark deeds and vengeance for his murdered family. To sum the story up, his once upstanding moral character has been shattered, and he strikes a deal with a foreign entity which give him eldritch powers to sate his thirst for vengeance. Seeing the pain and chaos such a grief stricken person would spread when granted with such powers seems payment enough for the entity, at least at fist glance.
The goal of the character is basically to amass as much wealth and power (both personnal and social) to be able to reclaim his birthright and sate his thirst for vengeance.
So, would this would be Warlock King be suitable for Kingmaker, both sotry and mechanically wise?
Any class can work storywise. Mechanically the class is lacking.
| Troubleshooter |
Allow me to expand just a little.
A wizard is the 'flex' character in a standard adventuring party. A fighter will fight as hard as he can all the time, because he doesn't run out of "Hit Hard." A wizard, however, has limited resources, and applies them as little or as much as needed -- he applies just a little magic in easy fights, so that later he can slather it on in hard fights that normal strategy or luck would sooner see the party all die.
Warlocks are a lot like magical fighters, in that they can do what they do all day long, but can't 'burn off' extra energy to add flexibility to a combat that's going very badly for the players.
The balancing mechanic of normal spellcasters are that they are awesome at what they do, but have to conserve their energy for when it is appropriate. Spend your biggest spells on one combat, and you'll be lacking later, perhaps when you truly needed it.
Kingmaker favors these characters, because where in a normal game you can reasonably expect more than just one encounter every single day, Kingmaker explicitly urges GMs not to have more than one random encounter -- after all, your level 1 players might run into CR 6 monsters right out of the gate, thus more than the one is tempting fate.
Too address a response -- you can have a random encounter, and then find a story encounter later that day. But you go into the situation knowing what the consequences are, so you're often at a greater advantage than normal, and at worst, are no worse off.
So what I'm trying to say here is, normal arcane characters can fairly safely burn off all their spells on a lot of random encounters. Your invoker doesn't have that option; he fights as hard as he can all the time, but is incapable of fighting harder. So in a direct comparison with other characters, he's performing suboptimally.
Still, viewing things objectively, just because it's suboptimal doesn't mean it's bad; I've run into a LOT of D&D players that hate every class that isn't cleric, druid, or wizard because they've experienced some strange, pitiable playstyle that poisons them against playing anything but the scientifically verified most-powerful classes in the game.
Still, I should wonder if Sorceror -- a tried-and-true Pathfinder system class -- wouldn't be able to do what you're looking for. With Bloodline choices like Abyssal, Infernal, and Aberrant, you could explain your sorcerous powers as coming from your dark pact, not unlike an arcane cleric. IIRC, changing the origin of your power is mechanically indistinguishable from that of Warlock, given that neither can be severed.
| Troubleshooter |
As far as very basic ruling goes, Warlock would make a very good candidate; Charisma is the ability score for King, and is also the most prevalent option in the other positions. Still, I can't speak any further on the subject; I'm just about to get into the kingdom mechanics, and for all I know, your King uses his Base Attack Bonus as a component to command armies. Somebody more knowledgeable on the subject will probably step in.
Setting wise, there are locations in Kingmaker that might be appropriate for your character -- there are areas that may have lasting supernatural influence that could play in on his pact.
Still, I don't see this lending itself very well to your character's goal of marching an army to a far-off land and siezing the kingdom. If you're fine with waiting until the end of the campaign, your DM may be willing to stretch it on long enough to see your goal realized, but the adventure path is a whole lot about exploring the Stolen Lands, leading its people, and dealing with its issues.
calagnar
|
The basic problem is the Warlock fails at what it was made to do. Any 3/4 BAB can out damage one with a bow. The realy problem with that is thats all a warlock can realy do well. And they fail at it compared to any other way of doing damage.
Yes pure stat wise they can do a good job at the kind post. What I'm saying is after reading the AP. Is they lack some of the important skills you will want to have as the king. That is why my top pick was a Bard they have Cha and the skill set to go with it. Second best being the Oracle they have the skill points and Cha is there casting stat. Clerics need some cha but not the skill points, but they have the class skills. Sorcerer hase the Cha but lacks the class skills. Warlock hase the same problem as the Socerer, with the addition of being pore mechanically.
With out spoiling the plot. The AP is not all about killing monster X of the day.
| Troubleshooter |
For skills, the Kingmaker Player's Guide lists Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive as skills that should come up quite often.
Bards get all four at 6 + Int.
Sorcerors get Bluff and Intimidate at 2 + Int. Additionally, the Infernal bloodline has Diplomacy as a class skill.
Warlocks get Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive at 2 + Int.
Clerics get Diplomacy and Sense Motive at 2 + Int.
Oracles have Diplomacy and Sense Motive at 4 + Int.
From a perspective of focusing on social skills, Sense Motive may be the least important of these as long as you have an advisor on hand that can quietly council you. Further than that, most players will focus on Diplomacy or Intimidate as their personal preferences go, though Diplomacy is usually considered the 'safer' bet, and having both obviously grants you flexibility.
Before continuing further, I suppose the question should be, do any of these classes explicitly conflict with the idea of making a pact with a dark power? Clerics are built for that sort of relationship -- merely that you're getting your divine spells from some force rather than necessarily a deity, and you'd have to pick domains for it. Oracle, I understand, venerates a concept. A sorceror could justify his sorcerous heritage and spellcasting as resultant from a bargain. I'd be skeptical about Bard, since he's very perform-y and must sing, speak, or whatnot while spellcasting and that all seems to be rather 'extra' for the purposes of making this concept work.
calagnar
|
I was mearly pointing out what classes wold make the best king. Making a character to be king. And making a character to fit the back ground. Are not the same thing.
I'm still going to stick with witch. As the best class for the back ground. Sorcerer and Oracle can work. You just need some creative story telling.
Witch
Some gain power through study, some through devotion, others through blood, but the witch gains power from her communion with the unknown. Generally feared and misunderstood, the witch draws her magic from a pact made with an otherworldly power.
Oracle
Although the gods work through many agents, perhaps none is more mysterious than the oracle. These divine vessels are granted power without their choice, selected by providence to wield powers that even they do not fully understand.
Sorcerer
Scions of innately magical bloodlines, the chosen of deities, the spawn of monsters, pawns of fate and destiny, or simply flukes of fickle magic, sorcerers look within themselves for arcane prowess and draw forth might few mortals can imagine.
| Troubleshooter |
I glossed over the Witch suggestion (it wasn't in the second post).
I agree, in that I like the Witch's flavor the most out of the Pathfinder classes. It's a shame that it's an Intelligence caster as opposed to Charisma, and that it only has 2 + Int skills with Intimidate being the only social class skill.