I'd love some advice from some experienced GMs on tips for running a successful adventure path.
I have several years experience running Society-type games under Living Greyhawk 3.5 for a home group, as well as about a year's worth of experience running Pathfinder Society home games, but at Christmas I started running a Kingmaker campaign for a group of 4-7 mostly novice players. This is something completely new to me and I'm finding the long term focus and broad boundaries quite a challenge to my developing skills - the whole experience is for me both incredibly freeing and nerve-wracking!
One of the main challenges that I see myself having to overcome in this campaign is my tendency to want to "save" my PCs. In my GM career thus far, I have yet to kill a PC, though in reality I can think of probably 3 or 4 situations where I definitely should have. I'd appreciate some advice on how to embrace lethality in a long running campaign, preferably without alienating my players. I want the world to seem "real" to them, and death is certainly part of the real world, but I find myself balking when it comes too close...
Case in point:
Reading posts on the boards here, there is a debate on whether it is "fair" to throw these CR6 random encounters at low level PCs... Suffice it to say that I ruled the horse to be more appetizing/readily digestible than the pally and justified it that way, but the fact remains that there will be (and always should be, in my opinion) a few difficult encounters in the wide wilderness, and the PCs must learn to run away (which they did in this example, upon release of the paladin).
Also, with so many of my players being brand new to Pathfinder and tabletop roleplaying, I'm not sure if I can trust them enough to know enough about the rules to be able to save themselves!! I like to employ Knowledge checks to allow their characters to become more informed about possible threats, but how far should I take this, especially when it comes to knowing the rules behind battle tactics? Any resources or suggestions that have worked for fellow GMs out there would be greatly appreciated, especially when it comes to dealing with novice players!
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My advice on running an AP:
1) Know the adventure from beginning to end (for example, don't run an AP that hasn't been fully released yet).
2) Plan ahead for the next encounter, scene, act, and adventure.
3) Don't forget to customize the details to fit your players and their characters.
4) Be mentally prepared to play for the long haul.
5) Play at a pace that works for you and your players.
On killing PCs: I don't generally kill PCs unless the death can be meaningful to story reason. Obviously, there are times when you can't save a PC from his own stupidity, but I don't kill characters out of spite or without due consideration. Sometimes I'll go into a particular act, scene, or encounter with the intention of killing a PC if I can to make a point or to move the story ahead.
Case in point (from Star Wars; spoilered for brevity):
-Skeld
High-CR random encounters don't have to be combat encounters, either. They could just as well be, say, a blue Dragon flying overhead for a while before diving for some game or turning back towards the mountains. A Hill Giant encounter could be as simple as spotting some large humanoid-shaped footprints that seem fresh.
I think you handled the Shambling Mound encounter fine. If the Paladin had stayed behind and attacked the creature to try to save his horse, then it would have been time to let the dice decide the outcome.
Well one of the advantages (and potential disadvantages) of a long-term campaign such as an AP is that if a character should die there's plenty of opportunity to bring in a new one. The disadvantage to that is that over a longer period of time people can grow more attached to their characters as well.
In my experience, that makes the loss more poignant but it also makes the development of the next character more significant (and fun).
My advice (for you to take or leave as you wish) is that you discuss it with the players ahead of time. Simply point out that character death is a genuine danger in this AP and they should prepare themselves for that possibility ahead of time and act accordingly. (Aside: It can also be fun for the players to make up wills for their characters.)
If a character dies (particularly the first time this happens) take the player aside and give them a choice to either bring in a new PC or play an NPC for a while until a story-option arises for their original PC to return. If they choose the latter make that return a significant event in the storyline. Don't just have them find a scroll of Raise Dead in the next monster lair. And assign a cost to it so that there's greater significance to the death than just the old video game experience of plugging in another quarter and hitting "Continue."
PC deaths are really an opportunity for the DM and the party to raise the gameplay to a whole new level. And it's an opportunity for the player to consider a different character or role to play. It's only a bad thing if you insist on viewing it that way.
Please put WHICH AP the spoiler is for. I can read RotRL, SD, CoT, and CC, but I am playing in LoF and am about to be a player in Kingmaker.
Sorry! I mentioned in my post that I was running Kingmaker, but I should have been more clear. I've corrected the spoiler tag. Thanks!
I would like to add just a bit to Skeld's very good advice. Don't get ahead of yourself. One thing that messed me up a bit when I ran Rise of the Runelord was all the cool encounters/NPCs I couldn't wait to get to. I ended up rushing through a lot of the storyline and royaly screwed up some of the other encounters.
As for PC death...it's a tough call. With people new to the game, you want to keep them having fun and excited about the game and the characters that they invested time into...and at the same time you don't want them to get it in their heads that there are no consiquences for stupidity.
Ganking the horse is a good call in my opinion. You spared the character a death that might not have happened if the player had been more experienced/thinking a little clearer...and at the same time they did take a good shot to the chin, which they hopefully learned from. Now if you go right out and hand them another mount free and clear...well, I'll loose all respect for you and never speak to you again...
What I try to do with a new group is let them know upfront that characters can die, I don't like it when they do, but it happens. In a campaign where you're likely to have a pretty intense random encounter, or the possibility the party could wonder into an area ment for higher level PCs, I'll let them know that sometimes you fight, sometimes you retreat, and sometimes you soil yourself and flee.
I'm not familiar with Kingmaker, but if at all possible, have some roleplaying encounters with friendly NPCs that give the PCs some information on how scary some of the monsters in the area are. Got a party of first levels? Have ol' Henry the hunter, village bad*** extrodinare tell them how fighting an ogre or two is one thing...but even he stears clear of a troll out in the woods. Or if they encounter something you think they need to run from, set up the encounter so they find the big nasty monster unharmed (and emphasis this so they don't think they got a lucky break) munching on a score of dead soldiers it just butchered.
High-CR random encounters don't have to be combat encounters, either. They could just as well be, say, a blue Dragon flying overhead for a while before diving for some game or turning back towards the mountains. A Hill Giant encounter could be as simple as spotting some large humanoid-shaped footprints that seem fresh.
I hadn't thought of that, Are. Thanks! This may be a bit of a silly question, but in these kinds of scenarios, or where the players run away after a brief encounter, would you tend to award any experience? I mean, I guess the players would learn something from it, but whether that should actually translate into XP for them is questionable...
I think you handled the Shambling Mound encounter fine. If the Paladin had stayed behind and attacked the creature to try to save his horse, then it would have been time to let the dice decide the outcome.
Again, thanks.
Well one of the advantages (and potential disadvantages) of a long-term campaign such as an AP is that if a character should die there's plenty of opportunity to bring in a new one. The disadvantage to that is that over a longer period of time people can grow more attached to their characters as well.
In my experience, that makes the loss more poignant but it also makes the development of the next character more significant (and fun).
My advice (for you to take or leave as you wish) is that you discuss it with the players ahead of time. Simply point out that character death is a genuine danger in this AP and they should prepare themselves for that possibility ahead of time and act accordingly. (Aside: It can also be fun for the players to make up wills for their characters.)
If a character dies (particularly the first time this happens) take the player aside and give them a choice to either bring in a new PC or play an NPC for a while until a story-option arises for their original PC to return. If they choose the latter make that return a significant event in the storyline. Don't just have them find a scroll of Raise Dead in the next monster lair. And assign a cost to it so that there's greater significance to the death than just the old video game experience of plugging in another quarter and hitting "Continue."
PC deaths are really an opportunity for the DM and the party to raise the gameplay to a whole new level. And it's an opportunity for the player to consider a different character or role to play. It's only a bad thing if you insist on viewing it that way.
Great food for thought. Thank you, Wander Weir.
My advice on running an AP:
1) Know the adventure from beginning to end (for example, don't run an AP that hasn't been fully released yet).
2) Plan ahead for the next encounter, scene, act, and adventure.
I've read the first 2 books a few times, skimmed the third and read the general outlines on the rest, but I guess I have still more reading to do! Thanks for the advice.
On killing PCs: I don't generally kill PCs unless the death can be meaningful to story reason. Obviously, there are times when you can't save a PC from his own stupidity, but I don't kill characters out of spite or without due consideration. Sometimes I'll go into a particular act, scene, or encounter with the intention of killing a PC if I can to make a point or to move the story ahead.
Case in point:** spoiler omitted **
-Skeld
Ideally, this is my position as well, though I'm not too sure about going in with the intent to kill, at least not yet. Perhaps for dramatic effect later, when I'm more experienced. Thanks for providing your in-game example!
I would like to add just a bit to Skeld's very good advice. Don't get ahead of yourself. One thing that messed me up a bit when I ran Rise of the Runelord was all the cool encounters/NPCs I couldn't wait to get to. I ended up rushing through a lot of the storyline and royaly screwed up some of the other encounters.
A very good point. I will try to restrain myself!
Ganking the horse is a good call in my opinion. You spared the character a death that might not have happened if the player had been more experienced/thinking a little clearer...and at the same time they did take a good shot to the chin, which they hopefully learned from. Now if you go right out and hand them another mount free and clear...well, I'll loose all respect for you and never speak to you again...
lol. They had to share horses for awhile, which slowed the group down... He eventually got a new one, but it wasn't as good and had to be trained from scratch, etc.
I'm not familiar with Kingmaker, but if at all possible, have some roleplaying encounters with friendly NPCs that give the PCs some information on how scary some of the monsters in the area are. Got a party of first levels? Have ol' Henry the hunter, village bad*** extrodinare tell them how fighting an ogre or two is one thing...but even he stears clear of a troll out in the woods. Or if they encounter something you think they need to run from, set up the encounter so they find the big nasty monster unharmed (and emphasis this so they don't think they got a lucky break) munching on a score of dead soldiers it...
This is an excellent idea. Thanks!
High-CR random encounters don't have to be combat encounters, either.
Seconded, you should always give your players the option of avoiding a potentially encounter, for example by spotting the creature(s) before it/they become aware of the party. If the players decide to act stupid however, don't pull your punches.