Not sure if this is exactly the right place for this question, but what the heck. in Greyhawk, Iuz's parents are Grazzt and Iggwilv. Iggwilv's mother (I believe) is Baba Yaga. So, who is Iggwilv's father?
Even though I'm in the very early days of my Age of Worms AP, my mind is wandering to what I will do for the following campaign. I'm thinking something very Iuz-y - I have Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk, and I just found my old Dragon #83 with Roger Moore's "Baba Yaga's Hut", and in picking through that I was wondering who Iuz's Grand-pa would be.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Greg
|
If you wanted to keep with the Baba Yaga flair though, I suggest making the paternal counterpart be a version of Koshchey the Deathless, another figure from Russian folklore. Even if not Iggwilv's true father, as Baba Yaga's servant he could have had an influence...
http://www.oldrussia.net/koshchey.html
Her wikipedia entry mentions that she was a daughter of ordinary mortals. If this is the truth is another thing entirely. She is said to be the real-world mythical witch Louhi as well, who might be identical with Loviatar, a goddess of diseases and the daughter of the god of death. The FR goddess Loviatar could then be Iggwilv in yet another guise, if you take that lead. Otherwise, drawing on that parallel, she could be the daughter of Nerull - I have no idea why he should have a daughter, but then, who knows what sinister plans he might have up his wide sleeve.
Fostering his daughter to mere mortals so that the old witch Baba Yaga is fooled into raising her as witch of great power and waiting for centuries to let his sinister plan coming to any result would be worthy of this old and patient and purely evil god. Surely, Iuz succeeded in bringing death tho GH on a scale seen not too often, but even that might be small business to Nerull. Wasn´t the Bringer of Doom used in the Invoked Devastation, and doesn´t it summon hordlings, whose origin is the Gray Wastes? Granted, Nerull is a power of Carceri, but hey, that´s a minor detail. I guess he could plan something like a second Invoked Devastation, if the first was not his doing. Perhaps Iuz is just a byproduct, some kind of ruse, to distract from the search for the Bringer of Doom by tying up all available resources of the "good guys" in fighting Iuz. Maybe it has gotten a little out of hand with Iuz reaching actual Demigod status, but hey, that is of no big consequence in the great wheel.
Stefan
Iggwilv is the adopted daughter of Baba Yaga, presumably Tasha was just an ordinary girl with mortal parents before being taken under the fold of the Grandmother Witch.
Gaahhh. Why didn't I know this?!?! Thanks for the clarification.
If you wanted to keep with the Baba Yaga flair though, I suggest making the paternal counterpart be a version of Koshchey the Deathless, another figure from Russian folklore. Even if not Iggwilv's true father, as Baba Yaga's servant he could have had an influence...
http://www.oldrussia.net/koshchey.html
Very nice, thanks. I just put Dragon #345 in my shopping cart.
Otherwise, drawing on that parallel, she could be the daughter of Nerull - I have no idea why he should have a daughter, but then, who knows what sinister plans he might have up his wide sleeve.
Another interesting idea. I had been thinking about Vecna - pre-lichdom - to play up to the Iuz/Vecna rivalry from the old "Vecna Lives!" adventure. But this is also an interesting idea.
Gonna have to think about this some more.
Thanks all!
Greg
Vecna was most probably on his path to godhood when Iggwilv was born. He might have had a hand in that (no pun intended), it might even have been one condition of his ascenscion - to create a wizard that is powerful enough to follow in his footsteps, yet nobody knowing this - he is the god of secrets, after all. He would have had a hand in creating his later rival that way, of course, which is probably just an ironic twist of fate, but might be another plan of his, to create the most elaborate ruse ever concieved and divert the attention away from him during the final stages of becoming a god. If you want a real world-shaking event, high-level heroes might be able to find Iuz´ secrets of godhood (courtesy of Vecna, of course) and have the power to unmake Iuz - which in turn might be a condition by which Vecna becomes an even more powerful god. Making a god - level one godhood. Destroying a god - level two godhood. Was it Vecna lives in which he tried
Stefan
If you want a real world-shaking event, high-level heroes might be able to find Iuz´ secrets of godhood (courtesy of Vecna, of course) and have the power to unmake Iuz - which in turn might be a condition by which Vecna becomes an even more powerful god.
This is actually what my end goal was. For them to find the Soul Husks and rid of Iuz for good. This group of players played in a 3e version of ToEE nearly 10 years ago, so their "hatred" for Iuz is quite well founded.
The implication of Vecna in the final act... I didn't see that. That's actually really good. I was always planning to start off the campaign with Mad God's Key, and then later put in Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk, so the intertwining of Vecna and Iuz was at least there peripherally. But I like your idea of making it even more involved than that.
Very nice. Thanks a lot.
Greg
The implication of Vecna in the final act... I didn't see that. That's actually really good. I was always planning to start off the campaign with Mad God's Key, and then later put in Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk, so the intertwining of Vecna and Iuz was at least there peripherally. But I like your idea of making it even more involved than that.Very nice. Thanks a lot.
Greg
Hmmm... and if you don´t want to let it look too bleak in the end, somehow, Zagyg might interfere and become a more powerful entity in the end instead of Vecna. Maybe only a mad god like Zagyg has the insight to anticipate Vecnas moves. And with starting off with the Mad Gods Key, you might even justify why Zagyg noticed all that - perhaps the players actions helped him. If Zagygs attention is good or bad for the players is another thing entirely....
Oh, and you are most welcome :-)
A couple months ago I started this exact Thread, almost -- check it out on the Archives for all the stuff we came up with; it was titled "Yo Mama's So Ugly."
EDIT: I just bumped so it's easy to find.
Thanks, I missed it the first time. I'll go take a look.
Greg
|
If Vecna "had a hand" in Iggwilv's conception wouldn't that throw off the GH timeline?
I don't know how old Mordenkainen is but Iggwilv assumed the persona of "Tasha" to become one of his students -- that would put Iggwilv FAR younger than Vecna as a mortal.
Unless, of course, if Iggwilv was already a bazillion years old when she became Mordenkainen's student -- but if that's so, if she was already an uber-powerful caster (with Baba Yaga AND Vecna in her lineage), why on Oerth would she want to become Mordenkainen's student? It couldn't have been just to create the spell Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter.
If Vecna "had a hand" in Iggwilv's conception wouldn't that throw off the GH timeline?
I don't know how old Mordenkainen is but Iggwilv assumed the persona of "Tasha" to become one of his students -- that would put Iggwilv FAR younger than Vecna as a mortal.
Unless, of course, if Iggwilv was already a bazillion years old when she became Mordenkainen's student -- but if that's so, if she was already an uber-powerful caster (with Baba Yaga AND Vecna in her lineage), why on Oerth would she want to become Mordenkainen's student? It couldn't have been just to create the spell Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter.
I don't know about the Mordenkainen connection but Tasha was supposedly a member of the Company of Seven and a contemporary of Zagig. Don't think that jives with her being a student of Mordenkainen.
(BTW, just re-disovered the GH Wiki via Canonfire. Excellent resource.)
Greg
If Vecna "had a hand" in Iggwilv's conception wouldn't that throw off the GH timeline?
I don't know how old Mordenkainen is but Iggwilv assumed the persona of "Tasha" to become one of his students -- that would put Iggwilv FAR younger than Vecna as a mortal.
Unless, of course, if Iggwilv was already a bazillion years old when she became Mordenkainen's student -- but if that's so, if she was already an uber-powerful caster (with Baba Yaga AND Vecna in her lineage), why on Oerth would she want to become Mordenkainen's student? It couldn't have been just to create the spell Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter.
Well, I don´t think that Vecna had a hand in that as a mortal - that would indeed play havoc with the canonical timeline. I would place Iggwilvs birth somewhere around 100 to 200 CY. At that time, Vecna would not exist in physical form. He is a demigod ~ 580 CY, if you follow the published adventures. He ascended to the Spidered Throne after the Rain of Colorless Fire, according to Vecna Lives. That would be about -420 CY. His Empire probably fell about -357 CY already, at least according to canonfire, and Keoland ascends. So, that gives about 450-550 years to the birth of Iggwilv, and about 880 years to ascend to godhood at most. If he managed to exist in some form between his destruction and his ascension, which we can safely assume, he might have influenced the birth of Iggwilv in his proto-deity form of existence - either by sending a proto-avatar, or by influencing the mortal parents with some kind of magic.
Iggwilv might have wanted to pose as a student to Mordy to really learn more, and to spy on his activities - for her own gain, for her supposed foster mothers gain, or for her fathers gain, if you take the Vecna idea. It would befit him to have a triple agent in Mordys castle. Vecnas influence on Iggwilv might be so subtle that not even she or Baba Yaga might be able to discover it.
Stefan
|
|
Iggwilv might have wanted to pose as a student to Mordy to really learn more, and to spy on his activities - for her own gain, for her supposed foster mothers gain, or for her fathers gain, if you take the Vecna idea. It would befit him to have a triple agent in Mordys castle. Vecnas influence on Iggwilv might be so subtle that not even she or Baba Yaga might be able to discover it.
Ahh, now that all sounds plausable.
Indeed, just cuz Iggwilv isn't so aware of her intrinsic Vecna (under the assumption), doesn't mean it wouldn't manifest itself in this way.
And talk about secrets -- Mordenkainen STILL DON'T KNOW that Tasha was actually Iggwilv in disguise.
|
|
I love delving into the family of Iggwilv.
I was running a campaign called Bloody Kisses, where one player was playing Black Comet, Iggwilv's familiar (unbeknownst to the other members of the party), and another player was an advanced succubus with amnesia (she was the daughter of Graz'zt and Malcanthet, stolen from her parents in ages past, and kept in stasis by a powerful ritual worked by Asmodeus, Demogorgon, and the Oinoloth... a fragile alliance at best, but something they all needed to do to keep the scales of the Blood War tipping in Graz'zt's favor. When the daughter was lost, Graz'zt and Malcanthet blamed each other, which was my reason for their ancient animosity towards each other and paying homage that both considers the other a scorned lover)
Iggwilv was working against the party through her quasit proxy, but his alliance began to shift as the party adventured and he came to trust them more than her, so his loyalties were in question. The campaign had a lot of twists and unlikely allies and was good while it lasted. I wouldn't mind rebooting it at some point, adding Baba Yaga into the mix and the twists I've concocted with her lately.
And talk about secrets -- Mordenkainen STILL DON'T KNOW that Tasha was actually Iggwilv in disguise.
If this does not scream "Vecna" I don´t know what will - leaving an Archmage who is normally steeped in secrets and who is all about discovering secrets in the dark like that looks just like him.
If Iggwilv was indeed born on Oerth, it would probably be some time in the late 3rd century CY - at least, she first is noted in the early 4th century and gains notoriety in Ket. That would indeed make her about 300 years old - but then, she existed on other worlds as well and may be much older than that. So, if Vecna would have had any influence, it would have been around that time, roughly 280 CY. If she is much older, it might even been the time of the great meteor, 198 CY. I should look at the timeline (seemingly, the greychrondex is down right now) if anything might indicate some involvement of Vecna somewhere - just for the fun of it.
EDIT: The Greychrondex worked just fine - I have no idea why I could not access it earlier. If you want to give players something to chew on, she could be the same age as Zagig, who was born 277 CY (most probable date). That could explain how she escaped notice except by Baba Yaga - another potentially powerful archmage being born the same day might avert attention of anybody looking for such signs.
Stefan
Tasha was Zagyg's apprentice, not Mordenkainen's.
There is the possibility of a Golarion tie-in with Iggwilv. Baba Yaga's daughters rule Irrisen, on a rotating, 100-year basis.
So maybe Iggwilv got her start on Golarion, then travelled to Oerth to become (in)famous there.
There is the possibility of a Golarion tie-in with Iggwilv. Baba Yaga's daughters rule Irrisen, on a rotating, 100-year basis.
** spoiler omitted **
So maybe Iggwilv got her start on Golarion, then travelled to Oerth to become (in)famous there.
Based on the comments from the paizo staffers involved, i believe you can get rid of the 'maybe' and consider it their intent.
|
|
. . . .There is the possibility of a Golarion tie-in with Iggwilv. Baba Yaga's daughters rule Irrisen, on a rotating, 100-year basis.
So maybe Iggwilv got her start on Golarion, then travelled to Oerth to become (in)famous there.
Based on the comments from the paizo staffers involved, I believe you can get rid of the 'maybe' and consider it their intent.
Well, maybe for the Pathfinder "official canon," but for many gamers who, just like the Paizo staff, have been playing in Oerth for decades and in Golorian for only a couple years -- but UNLIKE the Paizo staff, can still do tons of gaming with Greyhawk, Iggwilv will be justifiably HOMEBREWED as GH first and then Golarion.
I for one would automatically and without argument dictate that Iggwilv was born on Oerth and maybe, maybe, left for Irrisen and Baba Yaga's mothering, only to return to Oerth (after, say, 100 years in Irrisen) and become the Witch Queen of Perrenland, Zagig's "apprentice," etc., etc. But maybe Iggwilv never left. Maybe, probably, Baba Yaga came to Oerth to "adopt" Iggwilv.
Another option is this -
Iggwilv is the daughter of Jaran Krimeah, of the Ring of Five.
Jaran is from the Great Kingdom, and he and Iggwilv are the only living members of the former house of Rax.
Now Jaran is the Exalted One, Mage of the Valley.
This means Jaran has been kicking around Oerth for quite awhile, and would have become a shade after fathering Iggwilv, or perhaps not...