For my up coming e6 game, the characters are going to start off as guards on a caravan bound for Greece or Arabia from Persia. I wrote up the basic Persian military types. They have an additional feat, thanks to giving up Heavy Armor Proficiency, and the Apple Bearers (Immortals) have something extra.
Also, I made up one or two qualities for some of their weapons, so if you are curious, ask or look on my Weapon Customization thread on House Rules.
I'm curious what you history buffs think of my stats:
Peasant Levy
STR 13
DEX 10
CON 13
HP 7
AC 13 Padded Armor, Light Shield
Attack Spear +2 Strike, 1d8+1 Damage
Ranged Short Bow +1 Strike, 1d6 Damage
Professional Light Infantry
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 14
HP 12
AC 15 Leather Armor, Light Wicker Shield, Shield Spec, Dex +1
Attack Spear +4 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage or Short Sword +3 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Ranged Short Bow +2 Strike, 1d6 Damage
Feats Weapon Focus Spear, Shield Specialization, Endurance, Fleet
Professional Archer
STR 13
DEX 14
CON 14
HP 12
AC 15 Padded Armor, Dex +2, Large Wicker Shield +2
Attack Short Sword +2 Strike, 1d6+1 Damage
Ranged Short Bow +4 Strike, 1d6 Damage
Feats Weapon Focus Bow, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot
Professional Heavy Infantry
STR 15
DEX 12
CON 14
HP 12
AC 17 Bronze Curias +4, Dex +1, Light Wicker Shield, Shield Spec
Attack Spear +4 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage or Short Sword +3 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Ranged Short Bow +2 Strike, 1d6 Damage
Feats Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Spear Focus, Shield Spec
Zarthurm Calvary
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
HP 12
AC 20 Iron Curias +4, Large Bronze Shield, Shield Spec, Dex +2, Heavy Pommel
Melee Horseman’s Mace +4 Strike (+6 vs. Armored Soldiers), 2d6+2 Damage
Spears (2) Strike +3 Stabbing or Throwing, Damage 1d6+2
Short Sword Strike +3, 1d6+2 Damage
Ranged Short Bow +3 Strike, 1d6 Damage
Feats Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Weapon Focus – Horseman’s Mace, Power Attack
Equipment:
Horseman’s Mace of Work Hardened Iron with Simple Crossbar and Heavy Pommel
Hardness 10, Hitpoints 15, Add +2 CMD vs. Disarms, 2d6 Damage, +2 Strike Armored Targets, No Critical Hits, Huge Penalties on Foot
Two Spears, Short Sword, Short Bow, 120 Arrows, Iron Curias, Bronze Shield and Helmet
Heavy Warhorse: HP 19, AC 20 (+4 Dex, –1 size, +2 natural, +5 Bronze Scale Barding), Speed 35
Zarthurm Elite Heavy Infantry – Apple Bearers
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
HP 20
AC 19 Scale Mail +5, Light Wicker Shield, Shield Spec, Dex +2
Attack Nimble Spear (2) +5 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage or Short Sword +3 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Ranged Composite Short Bow +4 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Thrown Spear+5 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage
Feats: Spear Focus, Shield Spec, Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Special: Bullrush Strike
Special Equipment: Spears attack with reach, reduce critical to x2.
Well, I’d give the Persian cavalry short bows and a battle axe. The sagaris seems to have been their main melee weapon. Although if you’re going later in the empire, the western satrapy cavalry seem to have used javelins rather than bow. Not the easterners, or the Bactrians, with the latter using horse armour.
For the heavy infantry and the apple bearers, they seem to have concentrated on missile fire from behind their shields, which were large and flimsy and rested on the ground. To me that sounds like a pavise more than anything else. They also weren’t a match for Greek hoplites in hand to hand combat, so I don’t think they should be as well armoured as you have them. Short sword and/or short spear seem like good weapon choices, though.
Worth noting is that the Persian empire was large and multi-national. Most troops fought in their native style rather than adopting Persian equipment. Some of whom would be a little odd.
Hey, my post just got eaten. I made some changes based on your advice. Changed a weapon and a shield, gave the apple bearers point blank shot instead of bullrush strike.
The hoplites in my game from level one have an AC of 22 and a +7 to Bullrush while they are in the phalanx. They can easily shove everyone back and have two rows attack with reach. Only the apple bearer or the professional archer can hit with arrows on better than a 20 from 40' which is charging range. I think it is pretty emulative.
Thanks for the advice.
cranewings wrote: Hey, my post just got eaten. I made some changes based on your advice. Changed a weapon and a shield, gave the apple bearers point blank shot instead of bullrush strike.
The hoplites in my game from level one have an AC of 22 and a +7 to Bullrush while they are in the phalanx. They can easily shove everyone back and have two rows attack with reach. Only the apple bearer or the professional archer can hit with arrows on better than a 20 from 40' which is charging range. I think it is pretty emulative.
Thanks for the advice.
I am assuming you are looking at the armies of Darius and Xerxes not of the later periods...Successors, Sassanids, Parthians, Persians again.
The best primary source is Herodotus and his list nations providing troops to Xerxes army. Osprey who publish some of the best books on historical military formations and battles have "The Persian Army 560–330 BC" it is very good if you are looking for a run down on unit types and it has wonderful illustrations. I think you can order them through Paizo.
The 8th Dwarf wrote: cranewings wrote: Hey, my post just got eaten. I made some changes based on your advice. Changed a weapon and a shield, gave the apple bearers point blank shot instead of bullrush strike.
The hoplites in my game from level one have an AC of 22 and a +7 to Bullrush while they are in the phalanx. They can easily shove everyone back and have two rows attack with reach. Only the apple bearer or the professional archer can hit with arrows on better than a 20 from 40' which is charging range. I think it is pretty emulative.
Thanks for the advice.
I am assuming you are looking at the armies of Darius and Xerxes not of the later periods...Successors, Sassanids, Parthians, Persians again.
The best primary source is Herodotus and his list nations providing troops to Xerxes army. Osprey who publish some of the best books on historical military formations and battles have "The Persian Army 560–330 BC" it is very good if you are looking for a run down on unit types and it has wonderful illustrations. I think you can order them through Paizo.
Thanks a lot!
cranewings wrote: For my up coming e6 game, the characters are going to start off as guards on a caravan bound for Greece or Arabia from Persia. So are the PCs going to be the "Elite Persian Guards/Diplomats" who are surrounded by locals in the group? The world of the period was actually fairly cosmopolitan, and merchants could travel great distances, so they could be anything/one they want.
Otherwise, it would be shorter-haul trading. This could be an interesting campaign idea, where the PCs are ordered by someone important to "see this package/load/delivery all the way to its destination" but no single caravan or merchant is going the entire length, so they have to deal with multiple traders along the way. Most likely, they do not even know what they are guarding.
Such a set-up would give you the opportunity to introduce different cultures and nationalities along the way, as well as include intrinsic story-arcs and "chapter breaks" into your plot-line with each change of caravan or shipping method.
cranewings wrote: Peasant Levy
STR 13
DEX 10
CON 13
Presumable these are Com1 or at best War1, and should probably follow the 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 pattern.
Overall, I think stats are too high for the NPCs. Even the "Lights" should probably follow the 13-8 pattern for "normals". They just joined the Army instead of being farmers and are Warrior Classed rather than Commoners, but otherwise are nothing special.
Make Sergeants 3rd level with "Improved" stats, meaning they have +5 Ability points spread around their stats. Otherwise, Lt. Infantry and Archers should really have the same numbers but just in different places (Str/Con vs. Dex).
Heavies and Cavalry are more elite "career" troops, so I could see "Improved" stats being the baseline while leader-types among these divisions might have PC-worthy "Elite" stats.
Of course, this is all generic story/mechanics stuff, since my personal knowledge of the Persians is limited.
Bluenose wrote: the Persian empire was large and multi-national. Most troops fought in their native style rather than adopting Persian equipment. +1 ... which gives you a lot of flexibility but also fun in your depictions of the locals and the PCs' company along the trip.
The Roman Auxiliaries were similar ... local soldiers fighting for the Roman Army often in their local garb and style, generally for money but often for a shot at citizenship after a career of service.
The 8th Dwarf wrote: Osprey ... have "The Persian Army 560–330 BC" it is very good if you are looking for a run down on unit types and it has wonderful illustrations. +1 more goes to this suggestion. For what you're doing, there is probably no better resource than the Osprey series.
HTH,
Rez
I was thinking of this caravan as a kind of multinational, world traveling chain that happens to be going through Zathurm (Persiaish). One of the players is already planning on playing a Dwarven smith / fighter. His deal is that he is selling expensive swords made from their local steel, which is better (+2 Hardness, +5 HP, +2 Damage on Sundering) though not necessarily masterwork.
Another player is playing a Paladin from Anatolia (also renamed) who's local deity had its temple destroyed because it was perceived as being evil by the Zathurm invaders. I know another guy wants to play a bard, so he will probably just be a traveler on the caravan -- sense he is making the character an archer, it would fit pretty well with where they are.
As far as attributes go, I don't think it is unfair. PC's and strong NPCs use a 25 point buy in my games, so the NPC stats are still low. In addition, I think people in real life tend to have a lot of good stats or a lot of low stats: I don't think the idea of a fair spread is very emulative of real life. The whole point of a professional military is to produce people with high attributes and if you are pulling them from the 90% of the population that live a herders and substance farmers, you are going to get that.
Ok I found it.... there is a D20 setting called Ancient Kingdoms Mesopotamia by Necromancer Games.
What I looked through of it 5 or 6 years ago it was very good. I couldn't find it in the Paizo shop....
It is from an earlier period but it but has the right feel for what you are doing.
this is from a review site
Dead Cities in the Desert
A city of unspeakable antiquity, buried for centuries beneath the desert sands, stands revealed deep in the accursed desert known as the Red Waste. Dare you enter The City That Worshipped a Thousand Gods, seeking the treasures and relics of its Hierophants? Beware the lurking terrors of a bygone age!
Treasures of Darkness
Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia is a large setting sourcebook packed with numerous new classes, deities, monsters and magic items, including a series of short adventures. Explore ancient ruins, temples and dungeons of the lost city of Ibnath, and the perilous wilderness areas that surround it. The Ziggurat of the Ghoul-Queen awaits!
Bluenose wrote: Worth noting is that the Persian empire was large and multi-national. Most troops fought in their native style rather than adopting Persian equipment. Some of whom would be a little odd. +1
The Persian army was diverse in a way that would make your average New York City streetscape seem provincial. While it's hard to take this all the way out, I'd at least put in a lot of equipment diversity.
Also, this game really sounds like Xenophon's Anabasis, which you should add to the reading list (after Herodotus).
Thanks for the input gents.
I've read a little Herodotus. A couple quarters ago I took Greek and Roman History and G/R Great books. I picked up some of it along the way, even though it wasn't really about the Persians (we didn't spend any time looking directly at their art or culture beyond what was important for understanding the Greeks).
That said, I'm not going for total historical accuracy. I just want it to be emulative enough that my players feel like they are in a real place and time, rather than just some fantasy Europe with 21st century American culture tacked on.
cranewings wrote: Thanks for the input gents.
I've read a little Herodotus. A couple quarters ago I took Greek and Roman History and G/R Great books. I picked up some of it along the way, even though it wasn't really about the Persians (we didn't spend any time looking directly at their art or culture beyond what was important for understanding the Greeks).
That said, I'm not going for total historical accuracy. I just want it to be emulative enough that my players feel like they are in a real place and time, rather than just some fantasy Europe with 21st century American culture tacked on.
Here is a link to a PDF about the organisation of Xerxes Army . Its a bit dry and text booky. It does give a basic run down of the command structure.
Thanks for the book, I'm reading it right now. I've already written up two cultures that became a part of the empire. I would like at least four or five more to give it the right feel.
Sooooo, here is my Persian Immortal and my Spartan Elite for the e6 game. I made up a new feat for the phalanx that I think was needed. Both sides give up heavy armor proficiency for another feat. I also let the Spartans take a special feat early, to reflect their reliance on the tactic.
I've also changed the spear to a martial weapon and powered it up some. Its stats are at the end.
We all know who is suppose to win between the two (;
Do you think the stats are emulative enough of that?
Zathurm Elite Heavy Infantry (The Companions)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
HP 20
AC 20
Armor
Scale Mail +5, Heavy Wicker Shield, Shield Spec, Dex +2
Attack
Beautiful Masterwork Martial Short Spear (2) +6 Strike, 1d8+4 Damage
Short Sword +4 Strike, 1d6+4 Damage
Ranged
Short Recurve Bow +4 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Thrown Spear+6 Strike, 1d8+4 Damage
Feats
Spear Focus, Shield Spec, Power Attack, Furious Assault, Improved Bullrush
Equipment
Beautiful Masterwork Spears, Masterwork Composite Bows, Masterwork Armor, Masterwork Short Swords
Elite Hoplite (Spartan)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
HP 20
AC 21
Armor
Bronze Curias+6, Bronze Greaves & Bronze Helm +1, Heavy Bronze Shield, Dex +2
Melee
Martial Long Spear +5 Strike, 1d10+2 Damage
Short Sword +4 Strike, 1d6+2 Damage
Feats
Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, Coordinated Maneuvers, Phalanx Training
Special - Bullrush Strike
Notes
Power Attack not included in stats.
CMB for Bull Rush increases to +8 in formation.
While in formation and power attacking, add +1 Strike, +2 Damage, +2 AC.
Equipment
Masterwork Spear
New Feats and Equipment
Phalanx Training
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1, Coordinated Maneuvers, Power Attack, Improved Bullrush
While fighting in an intact phalanx formation, each man gains a +2 Circumstance bonus to AC and Strike.
Martial Short Spear
Damage 1d8
Critical x2
Type Piercing
Special Nimble – Can be used at short range without penalty.
Martial Long Spear
Damage 2d6 Two Handed or 1d10 One Handed
Critical x3
Type Piercing
Special Reach
So the key here is the formation. Split up, with these stats, I'd say that the Immortals are actually the better warriors. But, the winning side of competing Bullrushing is going to go to the Spartans.
On top of that, while fighting in formation the Spartans hit their targets on a 14 while power attacking, while the Immortals need a 17.
They aren't huge differences, but spread out over a couple hundred guys, the scale becomes huge and after a round or two of it, the Spartans will be able to start a lot of two on one hacking.
Also, Bullrush Strike when applied by the Spartans, even if it only takes place 1 out of 40 strikes, means for every hundred swings the Spartans get 2 or 3 two on one situations.
By the way: I just added this guy to the Zathurm army list. The Shield Bearer hangs out with archers, both as footmen and on the occasional chariot. They also make up the front line of a lot of units, specifically light infantry and sometimes heavy infantry.
Professional Shield Bearer
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 14
HP 12
AC 18 Leather Armor, Wooden Tower Shield, Shield Focus, Dex +1
Attack: Martial Short Spear (2) +1 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage
Range: Thrown Spear +1 Strike, 1d8+2 Damage
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Body Guard, Shield Focus, Saving Shield
Notes: While in formation, their AC goes to 22 and they can aid another to raise it to 24.
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