So, without too much introduction--I slapped this archetype together and will be play testing it in a new Pathfinder campaign (with my DM's approval). I tried to balance it to be somewhere between a Psychic Rogue, Lurk, and Bard.
Feel free to comment and I'll post an actual spell list if anyone's interested!
Seeker
Some rogues choose to forgo some of their skill training in order delve into the mysterious realm of the arcane.
Beguiling Arcane Initiate (Ex):
Armor Proficiency: A seeker can cast seeker spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a seeker wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass seeker still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spells: A seeker casts arcane spells drawn from the seeker spell list presented in the Spell List below. A seeker must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the seeker must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a seeker's spell is 10 + the spell level + the seeker's Intelligence modifier.
A seeker can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Seeker Spells per Day. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A seeker may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the seeker decides which spells to prepare.
Cantrips: Seekers can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Seeker Spells per Day. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.
In addition, add Knowledge (arcana) to the Rogue skill list.
Beguiling Arcane Initiate causes Sneak Attack damage to increase every 4 levels instead of every 2 levels. In addition a seeker's skill ranks per level become 6 + Int mod and Knowledge (dungeoneering) is removed from their class skill list.
Nimble Mind (Ex): A seeker's Will becomes a good save. This feature replaces Improved Uncanny Dodge and the Rogue talent Improved Evasion.
Spell List:
(Pathfinder-ized Beguiler)
Table: Seeker Spells per Day
(See Bard)
Interesting concept, but is this really all that different from just taking a half-and-half Rogue/Wizard multi-class character? He can cast spells in light armor without failure, but aside from that? Unless the Seeker spell list has a lot of non-wizard spells, I don't see this being different enough to justify the archetype. Try building two level 10 characters. One level 10 Seeker and one Rogue 5/Wizard 5 and see what the differences are and see if the Seeker is really necessary.
Personally, I think it would make more since for a Rogue caster to be a Charisma based spontaneous caster and since Rogues are all about being sneaky make it so none of their spells require verbal components. And develop some other nimble magic tricks that would be unique to the class. But that's just my take on it.
Interesting concept, but is this really all that different from just taking a half-and-half Rogue/Wizard multi-class character? He can cast spells in light armor without failure, but aside from that? Unless the Seeker spell list has a lot of non-wizard spells, I don't see this being different enough to justify the archetype. Try building two level 10 characters. One level 10 Seeker and one Rogue 5/Wizard 5 and see what the differences are and see if the Seeker is really necessary.
Personally, I think it would make more since for a Rogue caster to be a Charisma based spontaneous caster and since Rogues are all about being sneaky make it so none of their spells require verbal components. And develop some other nimble magic tricks that would be unique to the class. But that's just my take on it.
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Let me explain,
As someone mentioned in another thread on APG archetypes, archetypes shouldn't be better than other class/multi-class options... just different--and that's what I went for here. If you were to compare an Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Sorcerer) with a Seeker, I would want an Arcane Trickster to be better at spells and a Seeker to be better physically (HD, BAB, saves, armor, etc).
I fully intend to flesh out some cool brand new Rogue talents for the archetype if I get some positive feedback from my DM (maybe including some suggestions you made). I just wanted some feedback from the boards first to make sure the concept wasn't brokenly good ;)
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As someone mentioned in another thread on APG archetypes, archetypes shouldn't be better than other class/multi-class options... just different--and that's what I went for here. If you were to compare an Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Sorcerer) with a Seeker, I would want an Arcane Trickster to be better at spells and a Seeker to be better physically (HD, BAB, saves, armor, etc).
To be a true archetype, you would have to give up some rogue abilities for the spell casting, delaying the sneak attack bonus is not enough of a drawback. Maybe remove the rogue talents as well. A small list of class spells and uses per day would need require you to give up fewer abilites.
You could give up the trapfinding and trap sense for the will save.
The skills need a bit of work as well. You might want to add spellcraft to the class skills. I would drop disable device, disguise, and perform as well.
Honestly this would be much easier as a bard archtype, I think.
As someone mentioned in another thread on APG archetypes, archetypes shouldn't be better than other class/multi-class options... just different--and that's what I went for here. If you were to compare an Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Sorcerer) with a Seeker, I would want an Arcane Trickster to be better at spells and a Seeker to be better physically (HD, BAB, saves, armor, etc).To be a true archetype, you would have to give up some rogue abilities for the spell casting, delaying the sneak attack bonus is not enough of a drawback. Maybe remove the rogue talents as well. A small list of class spells and uses per day would need require you to give up fewer abilites.
You could give up the trapfinding and trap sense for the will save.
The skills need a bit of work as well. You might want to add spellcraft to the class skills. I would drop disable device, disguise, and perform as well.
I struggled with the idea of dropping sneak attack altogether--what stopped me from doing it is the fact that Lurks and Psychic Rogues get 5+ Psion casting levels AND retain most of their sneak attack damage progression. And Bards get tons of special abilities AND the extra good save for free in addition to their casting ability (but that's neither here nor there). Plus completely removing Sneak Attack would "break" a lot of the Rogue talents. I'm going to keep trying to think of another thing to remove to add the casting ability. (Although, maybe if I removed Sneak Attack AND Rogue talents... but that would leave the class pretty dead-looking, I think).
edit: Just for reference sake, I should also mention that a Rogue 3/Wizard 7/AT 10 would also get most Rogue skills, 17 levels worth of Wizard spells, and 7d6 Sneak Attack damage.
And maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but the archetype would have a trimmed arcane spell list. There would be no Evocation and Necromancy spells and only a handful of Abjuration and Transmutation spells.
Though, I agree on messing with the class skill list some more. I had completely forgotten about spellcraft (doh).
Honestly this would be much easier as a bard archtype, I think.+1
Maybe... but Bards already have arcane casting, which is kind of the point of this archetype.
I could remove all the "singing" from a Bard and add some Rogue abilities... but that wouldn't really be a Bard, would it?
A bard who focuses on stealth and silence is still a bard.
Most of the bard archtypes in the APG change how the bard gives its bonuses or what bonuses it gives.
Just a thought.
A roguey bard is alot easier to get to with an archetype change than a wizardly rogue. Adding spellcasting to a non-casting class is a trap in and of itself. From what I see, you added a lot of power and lost a few sneak attack dice.
A roguey bard is alot easier to get to with an archetype change than a wizardly rogue. Adding spellcasting to a non-casting class is a trap in and of itself. From what I see, you added a lot of power and lost a few sneak attack dice.
I guess the question here is: are the Psychic Rogue and Lurk balanced?
The Lurk is out of 3.5 Complete Psionic and the Psychic Rogue is here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b
If people don't think they're balanced I may as well stop right now :P
Here's a Bard variant. Keep in mind it's rough.
These guys do not gain Bardic Performance and all types of Bardic Performances are replaced with other Abilities:
Cantrips - In addition to their normal spells known, these guys know the spell guidance
Trapfinding - replaces Countersong, Distraction, and Fascinate
+1d6 Sneak Attack - replaces Inspire Courage at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 17th levels
Magic-Savvy - +2 to saves against spells and spell like abilities. replaces Well-versed
Eldritch Boost - Add class level as an untyped bonus to a skill check 1/day at 2nd level plus 1 additional time per day at 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels. This replaces Versatile Performer.
Otherworldly Guidance - At 3rd level, the bonus from your guidance spell can be used on two different rolls, but both rolls must be made within the normal duration of the spell. You can use the bonus on an additional roll at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels. This ability replaces Inspire Competence.
Suggestive Magic - At 6th and 18th level, these guys get +1 to the DC of Enchantment spells they cast. This replaces Suggestion and Mass Suggestion.
Visage of Doom - At 8th level, as a full round action these guys can sacrifice a spell slot of 1st level or higher to make an intimidate check against every creature within 30'. This check has a bonus equal to twice the level of the spell sacrificed. At 12th level this can be used for diplomacy checks as well. For every 5 points you beat the target DC, the effect is increased by 1 level (i.e. shaken becomes frightened or, for diplomacy, indifferent becomes helpful). This ability replaces Dirge of Doom, Soothing Performance, and Frightening Tune.
Inspired Action- At 9th level, a whatever these are called can sacrifice a spell slot as a free action to mimic the effects of a Bard's Inspire Greatness ability. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the sacrificed spell slot and these rounds may be divided among any number of allies who are within 30' when this ability is used. This replaces Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics.
Death Attack - This functions as the assassin ability but the DC is 10 + 1/2 this guy's level + this guy's Cha modifier. These dudes can sacrifice a spell as a free action to increase the DC of the Death Attack by the level of the spell sacrificed. This replaces Deadly Performance.
A bard who focuses on stealth and silence is still a bard.
Most of the bard archtypes in the APG change how the bard gives its bonuses or what bonuses it gives.Just a thought.
Well, since everyone seems to think it's a better idea, I gave it a shot:
Learned Assassin (Ex):
Lose Bardic Performance
Gain Sneak Attack and Master Strike
Watchful Eye, Careful Hand (Ex):
Lose Versatile Performance, Well-Versed
Gain Trapfinding, Disable Device
Not quite what I was going for originally, but kinda close.
If anyone's still mildly interested, this is the Archetype I will be play testing:
Bonuses to Sneak Attack damage are gained every 4 levels down from every 2 levels.
Remove Disable Device and Knowledge (dungeoneering) from the Rogue skill list.
Gain Cantrips and prepared, Intelligence-based arcane spells and the ability to cast them while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. See tables below.
Add Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft to the Rogue skill list.
Nimble Mind (Ex):
New Rogue talents are gained every 4 levels down from every 2 levels.
Skill ranks per level is 6 + Int mod down from 8 + Int mod.
Gain Will as a good save.
Table: Seeker Spells per Day
(See Bard progression)
Seeker Spell List:
0 level: Dancing lights, Daze, Detect magic, Ghost sounds, Mage hand, Message, Open/close, Prestidigitation, Read magic
1st level: Charm person, Color spray, Comprehend languages, Detect secret door, Disguise self, Expeditious retreat, Hypnotism, Identify, Mage armor, Magic weapon, Obscuring mist, Silent image, Sleep, Undetectable Alignment, Ventriloquism
2nd level: Alter self, Blur, Daze monster, Detect thought, Fog cloud, Glitterdust, Hypnotic pattern, Invisibility, Knock, Minor image, Mirror image, Misdirection, Obscure Object, Scare, See invisibility, Silence, Spider climb, Touch of idiocy
3rd level: Arcane sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Deep slumber, Dispel magic, Displacement, Glibness, Greater magic weapon, Haste, Hold person, Invisibility sphere, Major image, Nondetection, Slow, Suggestion, Tongues, Zone of Silence
4th level: Charm monster, Confusion, Crushing despair, Detect scrying, Freedom of Movement, Greater invisibility, Locate creature, Rainbow pattern, Shout, Solid fog
5th level: Break enchantment, Dominate person, Feeblemind, Hold monster, Mind fog, Nightmare, Persistent Image, Seeming, Sending, Telepathic bond
I consider removing the Rogue class' iconic skill and halving Sneak Attack/Rogue talents more than enough to add a limited spell progression/list, but I'll see if more needs to be done.
I'm also going to be playing a Rogue/Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster in another Pathfinder campaign, so I'll be able to compare them side-by-side!