Ok,
This came up on a rules thread, so I'm making this post to get some feedback. The new bestiary doesn't add to the summon spell lists. That's fine, of course, it's Paizo's prerogative to choose when and what to expand.
However, as I feel there is a certain lack of variety at certain levels with these spells, the idea here is to go over what could be added without breaking things or introducing power creep.
So, the starting place would be the monsters and creatures on the two lists.
Summon Monster
1st Level Subtype
Dire rat* —
Dolphin* —
Eagle* —
Fire beetle* —
Frog, poison* —
Pony (horse)* —
Riding dog* —
Viper (snake)* —
2nd Level Subtype
Ant, giant (worker)* —
Elemental (Small) Elemental
Giant centipede* —
Giant frog* —
Giant spider* —
Goblin dog* —
Horse* —
Hyena* —
Lemure (devil) Evil, Lawful
Octopus* —
Squid* —
Wolf* —
3rd Level Subtype
Ant, giant (soldier)* —
Ape* —
Aurochs (herd animal)* —
Boar* —
Cheetah* —
Constrictor snake* —
Crocodile* —
Dire bat* —
Dretch (demon) Chaotic, Evil
Electric eel* —
Giant lizard* —
Lantern archon Good, Lawful
Leopard (cat)* —
Shark* —
Wolverine* —
4th Level Subtype
Ant, giant (drone)* —
Bison (herd animal)* —
Deinonychus (dinosaur)* —
Dire ape* —
Dire boar* —
Dire wolf* —
Elemental (Medium) Elemental
Giant scorpion* —
Giant wasp* —
Grizzly bear* —
Hell hound Evil, Lawful
Hound archon Good, Lawful
Lion* —
Mephit (any) Elemental
Pteranodon (dinosaur)* —
Rhinoceros* —
5th Level Subtype
Ankylosaurus (dinosaur)* —
Babau (demon) Chaotic, Evil
Bearded devil Evil, Lawful
Bralani azata Chaotic, Good
Dire lion* —
Elemental (Large) Elemental
Giant moray eel* —
Kyton Evil, Lawful
Orca (dolphin)* —
Salamander Evil
Woolly rhinoceros* —
Xill Evil, Lawful
6th Level Subtype
Dire bear* —
Dire tiger* —
Elasmosaurus (dinosaur)* —
Elemental (Huge) Elemental
Elephant* —
Erinyes (devil) Evil, Lawful
Giant octopus* —
Invisible stalker Air
Lillend azata Chaotic, Good
Shadow demon Chaotic, Evil
Succubus (demon) Chaotic, Evil
Triceratops (dinosaur)* —
7th Level Subtype
Bebilith Chaotic, Evil
Bone devil Evil, Lawful
Brachiosaurus (dinosaur)* —
Dire crocodile* —
Dire shark* —
Elemental (greater) Elemental
Giant squid* —
Mastodon (elephant)* —
Roc* —
Tyrannosaurus (dinosaur)* —
Vrock (demon) Chaotic, Evil
8th Level Subtype
Barbed devil Evil, Lawful
Elemental (elder) Elemental
Hezrou (demon) Chaotic, Evil
9th Level Subtype
Astral Deva (angel) Good
Ghaele azata Chaotic, Good
Glabrezu (demon) Chaotic, Evil
Ice devil Evil, Lawful
Nalfeshnee (demon) Chaotic, Evil
Trumpet archon Good, Lawful
Above, the obvious problem child is SM8 and to a lesser extent SM9. Both are heavily limiting to the caster. Unfortunately, they're also the most powerful, so that is part of it. The Bestiary I slanted towards lower level monsters.
And now for Summon Nature's Ally
Summon Nature's Ally
1st Level Subtype
Dire rat —
Dolphin —
Dog —
Eagle —
Frog, poison —
Giant centipede —
Fire beetle —
Mite (gremlin) —
Pony (horse) —
Stirge —
Viper (snake) —
2nd Level Subtype
Ant, giant (worker) —
Elemental (Small) Elemental
Giant frog —
Giant spider —
Goblin dog —
Horse —
Hyena —
Octopus —
Squid —
Wolf —
3rd Level Subtype
Ant, giant (soldier) —
Ape —
Aurochs (herd animal) —
Boar —
Cheetah —
Constrictor snake —
Crocodile —
Dire bat —
Electric eel —
Giant crab —
Leopard (cat) —
Monitor lizard —
Shark —
Wolverine —
4th Level Subtype
Ant, giant (drone) —
Bison (herd animal) —
Deinonychus (dinosaur) —
Dire ape —
Dire boar —
Dire wolf —
Elemental (Medium) Elemental
Giant scorpion —
Giant stag beetle —
Giant wasp —
Griffon —
Grizzly bear —
Lion —
Mephit (any) Elemental
Owlbear —
Pteranodon (dinosaur) —
Rhinoceros —
Satyr —
Tiger —
5th Level Subtype
Ankylosaurus (dinosaur) —
Cyclops —
Dire lion —
Dolphin (orca) —
Elemental (Large) Elemental
Ettin —
Giant moray eel —
Girallon —
Manticore —
Woolly rhinoceros —
6th Level Subtype
Bulette —
Dire bear —
Dire tiger —
Elasmosaurus (dinosaur) —
Elemental (Huge) Elemental
Elephant —
Giant octopus —
Hill giant —
Stegosaurus (dinosaur) —
Stone giant Earth
Triceratops (dinosaur) —
7th Level Subtype
Brachiosaurus (dinosaur) —
Dire crocodile —
Dire shark —
Elemental (greater) Elemental
Fire giant Fire
Frost giant Cold
Giant squid —
Mastodon (elephant) —
Roc —
Tyrannosaurus (dinosaur) —
8th Level Subtype
Cloud giant Air
Elemental (elder) Elemental
Purple worm —
9th Level Subtype
Pixie (w/irresistible dance and sleep arrows) —
Storm giant —
And again, our problem children are SNA8 and SNA9, although in this case SNA9 is obviously the worse of the two.
Ok,
So, the idea is, what could be added to the list without introducing power creep, while still filling in some missing bits? I'm going to start reading through myself, but figured I'd post this first, in case someone has already done some research.
Ok, So,
Catoplebas for a SNA9? It would add a large magical item to the SNA list at the highest level, as a bit of variety over a storm giant and a pixie, and is certainly more druid flavored I'd think.
Giant Anaconda for SNA8?
Viper Vine for SNA9?
A tip of my hat to you from someone that thinks this is a great idea, but sadly has very limited access to the Bestiary II so cannot contribute.
Sorry it took me so long to find this thread mdt. I've got a suggestion for SM8: thunderbird. Let me think about your other ideas for a bit.
Sorry it took me so long to find this thread mdt. I've got a suggestion for SM8: thunderbird. Let me think about your other ideas for a bit.
I seriously considered it, but, the sheer size of the thunderbird really really bothered me as a summons. It seems way overpowered, despite the relatively low CR of the summons. Primarily, I think the low CR is due to it's size. However, as a summons, it's kind of overpowered.