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I saw a reference to speculation on RPGnet* that if Borders Books goes out of business it'll take a chunk of the RPG industry with it. IIRC, I bought the Bestiary and the Game Mastery Guide from Borders, and they usually have a decent RPG section (albeit lacking in products from smaller publishers). I can't see the loss of one outlet having that sort of effect; has anyone here heard anything different? (How much of Paizo's sales come via Border's, anyway?)
*RPGnet is blocked by the filters at work, so I can't check it out now.
I would hardly think that Borders going under would tragically affect the gaming industy's printers and publishers. As it stands, I have bought some from Border's, but almost all of my purchases have been off of the web due to the wider availablity of products. Here in central IL, our Borders have only a small amount of gaming items and over half of them are 4th ed books.
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Me thinks the person who posted that at rpg.net is exaggerating just a tad.
As said already, one retail chain going out of business isnt going to kill the industry, or likely even put a serious dent in it at all, except perhaps in places of the world where no other vendor sells rpg books, and even that wouldnt likely be a SERIOUS dent.
@ Sphen, just be glad your Borders wasnt one of those that closed in late 2009. In Southern IL the only one we had shut down, which makes finding books (any kind, not just rpg) more difficult, depsite the B+N a couple towns over.
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I got a bit more clarification on the rationale for the WE'RE AAAAALLLLLL DOOOOOOOOOMMMMMED scenario--it's not the sales figures, at least not directly. The claim is that the loss of Borders might take down their suppliers (i.e., the distributors), which would make problems for anyone trying to sell through brick-and-mortar stores. That seems a marginally more plausible mechanism for catastrophe, but I still don't think it'd be enough.
Chief Technical Officer
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If Borders had suddenly gone from the number 1 chain retailer directly to bankrupcty, that would be a problem for a lot of folks. However, Borders' problems didn't arise overnight—their sales have been gradually declining over a long time. Thus, they've been slowly decreasing their orders over many months. That means that losing their sales at this point will be more of blip than a bomb for most publishers, and it also means that they don't have a lot of potentially returnable inventory. (Mass returns are one of the biggest potential problems for small publishers—high-volume returns from the book chain contributed directly to the deaths of both TSR and GDW.)
Our book trade distributor is working with Borders to manage their needs during this time in a way that minimizes the potential exposure for everyone.
In short, while losing Borders will have an impact, it's not going to be that big a deal for most folks.
I do wonder if there's value to having places like Borders (from the gaming industry's perspective) is in a marketing sense rather than a direct sales sense -- e.g. a random person who would otherwise not have heard of Pathfinder spies one of the books in a Borders and starts checking it out. This "gateway drug" eventually drives him to purchases at your standard non-Borders outlets.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I do wonder if there's value to having places like Borders (from the gaming industry's perspective) is in a marketing sense rather than a direct sales sense -- e.g. a random person who would otherwise not have heard of Pathfinder spies one of the books in a Borders and starts checking it out. This "gateway drug" eventually drives him to purchases at your standard non-Borders outlets.
I think that's actually one of the big book chain's biggest values to us—reaching audiences who don't know we exist.
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I do wonder if there's value to having places like Borders (from the gaming industry's perspective) is in a marketing sense rather than a direct sales sense -- e.g. a random person who would otherwise not have heard of Pathfinder spies one of the books in a Borders and starts checking it out. This "gateway drug" eventually drives him to purchases at your standard non-Borders outlets.I think that's actually one of the big book chain's biggest values to us—reaching audiences who don't know we exist.
Speaking of reaching audiences who didn't know you existed, did you see any effects from being listed in that MTV Top Ten list recently?
I do wonder if there's value to having places like Borders (from the gaming industry's perspective) is in a marketing sense rather than a direct sales sense -- e.g. a random person who would otherwise not have heard of Pathfinder spies one of the books in a Borders and starts checking it out. This "gateway drug" eventually drives him to purchases at your standard non-Borders outlets.
Heh, I always put the Pathfinder books in front of the Wizards end cap...
Speaking of reaching audiences who didn't know you existed, did you see any effects from being listed in that MTV Top Ten list recently?
I haven't heard of this. Details?
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I haven't heard of this. Details?
Speaking of reaching audiences who didn't know you existed, did you see any effects from being listed in that MTV Top Ten list recently?
The announcement is here.
Pretty cool, actually, even if I would've put Pathfinder higher than #7.
ETA: Ninja'd by the Postmonster General!
Heh, I always put the Pathfinder books in front of the Wizards end cap...
As someone who worked in a bookstore for many, many years I would kick you in the shins for doing that. I have to put that stuff back in its section thankyouverymuch. Publishers *pay* to have big endcap displays in stores and their reps (who show up at odd times) get pretty pissed if their displays have other publishers books on them. please don't try to get people in trouble just to push your favourite game.
From what I've seen, Borders is the only store carrying a notable amount of non-WotC RPG material. Barnes & Noble and Books-a-Million didn't have the selection the Borders I went to had.
We have both a Borders and Barnes&Noble here in our town. As well as two gaming stores and three used books stores (one literally right across the street from me). And I still tend to buy straight from the site. It is just easier and I can find things beyond the Core Rulebook and the Beastiary.
We have both a Borders and Barnes&Noble here in our town. As well as two gaming stores and three used books stores (one literally right across the street from me). And I still tend to buy straight from the site. It is just easier and I can find things beyond the Core Rulebook and the Beastiary.
Which is exactly the kind of person those RPG displays aren't really meant for - some one already familiar with the product and publisher. Buying from here there or anywhere is great, but what bookstores provide - even more than gaming stores - is coverage for the general public. Some one may not know what dark corner of some weird strip mall Bob's Gaming Bonanza is, but the big Barnes & Noble/Books-a-Million/Borders on the side of the major highway is going to get a lot more traffic.
We have both a Borders and Barnes&Noble here in our town. As well as two gaming stores and three used books stores (one literally right across the street from me). And I still tend to buy straight from the site. It is just easier and I can find things beyond the Core Rulebook and the Beastiary.Which is exactly the kind of person those RPG displays aren't really meant for - some one already familiar with the product and publisher. Buying from here there or anywhere is great, but what bookstores provide - even more than gaming stores - is coverage for the general public. Some one may not know what dark corner of some weird strip mall Bob's Gaming Bonanza is, but the big Barnes & Noble/Books-a-Million/Borders on the side of the major highway is going to get a lot more traffic.
Oh, I agree. I was in no way attempting to undermine your point, just throwing in my two copper.
Oh, I agree. I was in no way attempting to undermine your point, just throwing in my two copper.We have both a Borders and Barnes&Noble here in our town. As well as two gaming stores and three used books stores (one literally right across the street from me). And I still tend to buy straight from the site. It is just easier and I can find things beyond the Core Rulebook and the Beastiary.Which is exactly the kind of person those RPG displays aren't really meant for - some one already familiar with the product and publisher. Buying from here there or anywhere is great, but what bookstores provide - even more than gaming stores - is coverage for the general public. Some one may not know what dark corner of some weird strip mall Bob's Gaming Bonanza is, but the big Barnes & Noble/Books-a-Million/Borders on the side of the major highway is going to get a lot more traffic.
Yes, hopefully after they familiarize themselves with books they see in the stores, they would come buy them directly, but they really have to see them first.
Copy that. I will hence forth begin builiding over-sized bill-boards for every major city in the United States. Look for one in your home town soon.
Copy that. I will hence forth begin builiding over-sized bill-boards for every major city in the United States. Look for one in your home town soon.
I'm curious as to what an oversized bill board would look like...
Copy that. I will hence forth begin builiding over-sized bill-boards for every major city in the United States. Look for one in your home town soon.I'm curious as to what an oversized bill board would look like...
Think Empire State Building. Hhhmmmmmmmmm.....................Maybe I need some help with it.
From what I've seen, Borders is the only store carrying a notable amount of non-WotC RPG material. Barnes & Noble and Books-a-Million didn't have the selection the Borders I went to had.I dont know about that. Most B&N stores have more FFG and Shadowrun products then paizo ones around me.
Pathfinder isn't WotC either.
What RPG books a retailer carries depends a lot on location, population, and demand.
There's a Borders and a Barnes and Noble in the same general area near where I live... near several universities and two FLGSs. Both have a small but well-stocked RPG section of the same size. 4E stuff dominates at both because Hasbro pays for display space, etc. but both carry Pathfinder and do so in roughly equal amounts (usually you can at least find the core rulebook and the APG).
That's because there is both demand and competition (the FLGSes do well on their own, thankfully---I would say that the regular, dedicated gamers buy their stuff at the FLGSes... which also of course get revenue from comics and moreover from CCGs... whereas the retail chains attract new and more casual gamers).
Comparatively, there is another B&N farther from that "hub" which has far fewer RPG books, and mostly 4E books at that (although they have one random chapter of the City of Thieves AP).... but while it's close to yet another university, there isn't as much of a "gaming community" in that area... or those people trek out to the FLGSes further away.
In short, while there may be some Borders locations that particularly served a gaming community because they were what was there, not all Borders were the same and had the same stock.
I know with their rewards program it's rare I don't get an email coupon for 25%-30% off a book at Borders. The Borders stores near me in Northern VA have pretty decent RPG sections and I regularly find WotC, Paizo and FFG titles there with a sampling of others. That makes them a favorite choice for me. I think it'll be a shame if they go out of business. Obviously I have the option to go online to get comparable discounts and I do have the discount card at Books-A-Million that gets me at least 10% off there.
L