hey everyone,
so far in my kingmaker campaign (we're in RRR right now), my players haven't gotten into magic item spamming to fund their kingdom.
I thought I would just omit this part from my campaign all together. but I was thinking about it and I would like to keep some of it in there to spice things up.
so the first issue is why does the kingdom get the full sell price for one of these items ? the way I read it, the items are procured by the building the allows them, and they would be the ones actually selling the item. they wouldn't just hand over their profits to the state.
but they would hand over a tax.
*minor items wouldn't generate a BPs worth of tax, so the only benefit of selling these off would be to flush them and get new ones in.
*medium items would generate 1bp. That's a 12.5% tax, which may be steep depending on your nations policies, but is as low as we can go and still get a bp amount.
*Major items would generate 2bp. its actually a little less than this, but I rounded up to the nearest full BP.
overall I think this will let them feel like selling these items is beneficial to their nation without it being overpowering.
thoughts, concerns ?
thanks,
Clammy
Edit: I guess these could be upped with higher tax rates, if the PCs wanted to risk it.
like I said, my crew is only on RRR. I haven't gotten to far ahead of that adventure, so I will have to look into it.
but cant they use BPs from their econ rolls for their armies ?
I've seen so many posts about how the selling of magic items outweighs anything else, and basically lets the pc's build what they want at will without any worry. I've also seen several people state that they flat out are eliminating that step from their games.
I want it to help the kingdom, but not be their only real source of kingdom income. that, to me anyway, is the reason for econ boosting buildings.
This is identical to the suggestions I made in the kingdom building thread a while back except that I also gave econ bonuses based on the items available for sale. I've been running it since the PCs started their kingdoms and we're just starting VV now. It is working out well and I've also crunched the numbers - There should be no problem with the armies if you use the author's suggested rules that armies need to only be paid once a month when not in the field (and once a week - as written - otherwise).
thanks for the reply Tem,
I'm glad that this system works out for you. I'll have to try to find your old post to see your econ bonuses.
thanks for the reply Tem,
I'm glad that this system works out for you. I'll have to try to find your old post to see your econ bonuses.
On top of the 0/1/2 BP for selling minor/medium/major items, I've given them +1/+2/+4 to economy if a city (not district) has a minor/medium/major item available for sale. I also allow these to stack. It seems like quite a bit, but really, +5 amounts to the same as 1 BP with respect to economy rolls each month so it's still not nearly as overwhelming as the rules as they're presented in the AP.
Nice idea linking the magic item sales income to taxes.
I went with straight economy bonuses (applied after the economy check was made, but before dividing by 5) of +3/+8/+15 since winter has an effect on income in my campaign.
Like Tem, my group is starting VV this week. After we finish this module, I'll analyze WRK in detail to determine if my group will have enough BPs to handle fielding armies. I don't expect there to be a problem, but if it looks like they will run short I'll add extra coinage to BFB for the players to spend on armies. Sacrificing personal wealth to field armies to defend their kingdom just feels right, somehow.
Just a reminder on tone/realism: fielding armies and long wars have traditionally bankrupted countries and empires. Being able to engage in mass combat should not not be easy, or even moderate. It should be downright hard: something that pushes the country to the brink. That's part of what war does.
That being said, by all means use the "only pay upkeep 1/month for garrisoned troops" rule. But fielding them should be painful.
On top of the 0/1/2 BP for selling minor/medium/major items, I've given them +1/+2/+4 to economy if a city (not district) has a minor/medium/major item available for sale. I also allow these to stack. It seems like quite a bit, but really, +5 amounts to the same as 1 BP with respect to economy rolls each month so it's still not nearly as overwhelming as the rules as they're presented in the AP.
I like the bonuses you have here for econ, I think I may use them in my campaign as well.
Mandor, how do you have winter effect your campaign ? just curious. the way I handled winter is if my players didn't build granaries and the like to store food, I would double consumption during those months.
I am going to play with some numbers for how taxes will effect bps gained from magic items. right now I believe my players are not currently taxing the citizens. however, I believe they will be when I show them how magic items work. obviously no taxes means no tax income. though I would let them get the econ bonus for having items available.
thanks so far guys, I love the ways people are dealing with this issue.
On a side note - I find it amusing that you find 12.5% steep for a tax. When I first read it I thought it seemed quite low. Heck - I'm paying more than that when I go to the store and I just moved from somewhere that charged more again.
If you think of it as income tax for the sellers rather than a sales tax, it wouldn't be unheard of to have taxes over 50%. I have european relatives paying about 75% (marginal) income tax.
Mandor, how do you have winter effect your campaign ? just curious. the way I handled winter is if my players didn't build granaries and the like to store food, I would double consumption during those months.
For kingdom rules, when generating income we divide by 10 during the winter months instead of dividing by 5.
For RP, my players know to expect snow during winter. The Stag Lord fight took place 4 hours into a snowstorm that lasted 2 days.
@ Tem, I was looking at it like a sales tax, not an income tax. income tax to me is encompassed by the tax edict.
@ Mandor, I like that. had I not instituted the granaries then I may have used that.
as for my taxes influencing magic item sales, I ran some quick numbers and I think I am going to increase the amount the kingdom receivess like this:
based on taxes: Minor/Medium/Major
None: 0/0/0
Light: 0/.5/1
Normal: 0/1/2
Heavy: .5/2/4
Overwhelming: 1/4/8
@tlc_web tlc_web
I think that by adding this system to the tax system fulfills what I am looking to get out of it (by reducing the reliance on the sales of magic items) and adds to the tax edicts system.
if my players don't want to worry about the sale of mag items then they can leave their taxes at none and thats the end of that.
I don't think it is all that much more complex, and I think it will be fine. it is certainly a lot less work than designing an adventure to sell magic items in restov or another city. plus, I don't think my PCs would much like being high security caravan guards when they are already rulers.