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Hey guys, I am new to the pathfinder rule set and also new to gm'ing i have decided to take one of my favourite races in D&D 3.5 and convert it to pathfinder i was just wondering if you guys had any advice on it ie. if its overpowered, underpowered.
Thanks,(oh this was taken mostly from the frostburn book)
Neanderthal Racial Traits
• +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence.
Neanderthals are strong and hardy, but are not very intelligent.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, neanderthals have no
special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Neanderthal base land speed is 30 feet.
• Primitive Weapon Mastery (Ex): Neanderthals have a
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls made with the following
weapons: bolas, club, dart, greatclub, goad, harpoon, iuak,
javelin, longspear, quarterstaff, ritiik, shortbow, shortspear,
sling, spear, sugliin, throwing axe, and tiger skull club.
• +2 racial bonus on Perception and Survival checks.
Neanderthals have excellent senses and know how to get
along in the wild with ease.
• Climate Tolerant (Ex): Neanderthals suffer little harm
from environmental extremes of heat or cold. They do not
have to make Fortitude saves in extreme environments
between –20° and 140° F (severe cold to severe heat). This
ability does not provide any protection from fire or cold
damage. This ability counts as if a neanderthal had the
Cold Endurance feat for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites
for other feats or prestige classes.
• Human Blood: For all effects related to race, a neanderthal
is considered a human. Neanderthals are just
as vulnerable to special effects that affect humans as
humans are, and they can use magic items that are only
usable by humans.
• Illiteracy: Neanderthals do not automatically know how
to read and write. A neanderthal must spend 2 skill points in
linguistics to gain the ability to read and write all languages
he is able to speak.
• Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages:
Dwarven, Giant, and Orc. Neanderthals are familiar with
the languages of giants and orcs, for these two groups are
common enemies that vie for competing land with them.
Likewise, their penchant for dwelling in caves and underground
ruins often puts them in contact with dwarves.
Just a quick perusal here but it looks a bit too good for something I'd let a PC play. +2 to str, +2 to con, +2 to perception and survival, and an additional +1 to certain neanderthal weapons, bit too strong. As is, I'd drop the int penalty to -4, give them a +1 to survival and drop the weapon bonus. I'd also limit the climate tolerance to just cold climates. Bonus languages I'd toss as well, neanderthals dont strike me as linguists.
If its just an NPC race you want to throw up against the pc's then its not too bad, I'd add an extra CR or two on them though.
edit: Read back over the Frostburn neanderthals and looks pretty much the same except for the -2 dex in addition to the -2 int. I'd say that version is a bit better, and was going from the assumption that they were more like real-world neanderthals... They come off as too powerful for a pc race imo either way.
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Just a quick perusal here but it looks a bit too good for something I'd let a PC play. +2 to str, +2 to con, +2 to perception and survival, and an additional +1 to certain neanderthal weapons, bit too strong. As is, I'd drop the int penalty to -4, give them a +1 to survival and drop the weapon bonus. I'd also limit the climate tolerance to just cold climates. Bonus languages I'd toss as well, neanderthals dont strike me as linguists.
If its just an NPC race you want to throw up against the pc's then its not too bad, I'd add an extra CR or two on them though. [/QUOTE
yeah that sounds like a good idea thanks
Some thoughts:
Research indicates that neanderthals did not live very long. It was not just that they were likely to die at a young age, but they died of old age at what we would consider middle age.
Research also indicates that neanderthals were very conservative, in the sense of constantly repeating the same cultural artifacts in the same way. Most of the weapons you list as giving neanderthals a bonus to, would be ones that they would never have seen. I would limit the bonus to a few simple weapons, or perhaps give them +1 with all simple weapons and -1 with all others. (Taking a -1 penalty to use a sword of a bow would help balance the race without crippling them.)
There is little evidence that neanderthals used any projectiles more complicated than throwing a spear, so I would limit any special bonus to melee and thrown weapons only.
Neanderthals should also get a bonus for crafting the weapons that they can make. Perhaps weapons and items on a short list can be made as mastercraft items with 1/2 the normal time, and they get a +2 racial bonus for crafting them.
If you are feeling ambitious, you could define a couple exotic weapons for neanderthals that are essentially their crude hand-axes and stone knives. They would be exotic weapons for normal characters who would not be used to using such crude implements, but neanderthals would automatically gain proficiency in these.
In Jean Auel's _Clan of the Cave Bear_ novel, neanderthals had access to a racial memory that could guide them in everyday tasks. The shaman was trained in meditation techniques that allowed him to go far back into the past, while others were more limited. Still, this could be modeled as granting the equivalent to the Bardic Knowledge ability, only applied to primitive craft and to Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), and Survival. A neanderthal trained in Healing might be able to get this bonus to Healing checks, too.
In my own "Atlantis" project, I am toying with the idea of having dwarves descended from neanderthals. Thus, it would make sense for neanderthals to have familiarity with the dwarf language, and perhaps give them a couple of the dwarven abilities.
As for what you posted, yes, there needs to be some drawbacks to playing a neanderthal. Perhaps something like:
* Weapon unfamiliarity. A -1 penalty to martial and exotic weapons (other than neanderthal weapons and, if you take my logic of dwarves and neanderthals being related, dwarf weapons).
* Linguistics penalties. Many sources suggest that the neanderthals would have difficulty with human languages, and thus perhaps it takes double the cost to learn to speak a foreign language.
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Some thoughts:
Research indicates that neanderthals did not live very long. It was not just that they were likely to die at a young age, but they died of old age at what we would consider middle age.
Research also indicates that neanderthals were very conservative, in the sense of constantly repeating the same cultural artifacts in the same way. Most of the weapons you list as giving neanderthals a bonus to, would be ones that they would never have seen. I would limit the bonus to a few simple weapons, or perhaps give them +1 with all simple weapons and -1 with all others. (Taking a -1 penalty to use a sword of a bow would help balance the race without crippling them.)
There is little evidence that neanderthals used any projectiles more complicated than throwing a spear, so I would limit any special bonus to melee and thrown weapons only.
Neanderthals should also get a bonus for crafting the weapons that they can make. Perhaps weapons and items on a short list can be made as mastercraft items with 1/2 the normal time, and they get a +2 racial bonus for crafting them.
If you are feeling ambitious, you could define a couple exotic weapons for neanderthals that are essentially their crude hand-axes and stone knives. They would be exotic weapons for normal characters who would not be used to using such crude implements, but neanderthals would automatically gain proficiency in these.
In Jean Auel's _Clan of the Cave Bear_ novel, neanderthals had access to a racial memory that could guide them in everyday tasks. The shaman was trained in meditation techniques that allowed him to go far back into the past, while others were more limited. Still, this could be modeled as granting the equivalent to the Bardic Knowledge ability, only applied to primitive craft and to Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), and Survival. A neanderthal trained in Healing might be able to get this bonus to Healing checks, too.
In my own "Atlantis" project, I am toying with the idea of...
Yeah those are all great ideas, i reall like the racial memory idea
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• Primitive Weapon Mastery (Ex): Neanderthals have a
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls made with the following
weapons: bolas, club, dart, greatclub, goad, harpoon, iuak,
javelin, longspear, quarterstaff, ritiik, shortbow, shortspear,
sling, spear, sugliin, throwing axe, and tiger skull club.• Climate Tolerant (Ex): Neanderthals suffer little harm
from environmental extremes of heat or cold. They do not
have to make Fortitude saves in extreme environments
between –20° and 140° F (severe cold to severe heat). This
ability does not provide any protection from fire or cold
damage. This ability counts as if a neanderthal had the
Cold Endurance feat for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites
for other feats or prestige classes.
I would drop these. Maybe give them a +2 racial bonus to saves vs cold.
Mike
I would give them a -2 to heat tolerance. I know it's harsh but the neanderthal is built for cold weather tolerance. Thick chests and relatively shortened limbs are all cold adapted as are their cranio-facial structure. They are great when you are trying to retain body heat but awful for trying to disperse heat.
Additionally I might make the + 1 on weapons. a +1 to simple stone, wood, bone, or horn weapons.