I'm curious as to who will be starring this time round. I imagine with the release of new classes in the APG we might see some of the new classes. I imagine Imrijika the Inquisitor will be in this one. And of course I'm hoping Feiya the witch
Well, the one cover previewed in the blog shows Feiya and Merisiel so far.
James said in some thread that it will be Seoni, Merisiel, Feya and Seelah
I hope we see a Char.. Golarion's Angels Picture ;-)
me, i will not miss the Stat Blocks for the Iconics, never had any use for them
Wont miss the stats either but the all female party is a first for an AP
First, folks are right about the line up - this is the Charlie's Angels group, which has been really fun.
As I understand it they chose not to pick Imrijka because her monstrous appearance might cause some confusion in some of this APs illutrations.
Second, that's exactly the case... to a point. While you'll definitely be seeing Imrijka illustrated in upcoming Pathfinder projects, by dint of being a half-orc she's not likely to show up on any covers or high profile pieces of art. While our "monster" monster-hunter is still one of our favorite iconics around here, she's one of the few iconics that doesn't scream "HERO!" This makes it harder to use her for marketing and covers, where we're trying to convey a product's content to folks who might not be familiar with Golarion, Pathfinder, or Paizo.
At the end of the day, though, it came down to personal favoritism. Every AP group gets the classic party line-up - "Fighter," "Cleric," "Wizard," "Rogue." This time around that works out as Seelah, Feyja ('cause she can cast healing spells), Seoni, and for the last we could go with Merisiel, Sajan, Harsk, Seltyiel, Damiel, or Imrijka for that support role. We got the Charlie's Angels idea at about this point, so that nixed most of those, and between the final two, it turns out that we just like Merisiel more. So there it is!
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
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Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
So the group of iconics for Jade regent has been chosen then? Hoping there wont be any repeats in that one (meaning an Iconic running in two ap in a row which unfortunatly Merisiel is.)
Creative Director
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So the group of iconics for Jade regent has been chosen then? Hoping there wont be any repeats in that one (meaning an Iconic running in two ap in a row which unfortunatly Merisiel is.)
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
They've been chosen. There is at least one repeat.
And there's nothing unfortunate at all with 2 Merisiel APs in a row.
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So the group of iconics for Jade regent has been chosen then? Hoping there wont be any repeats in that one (meaning an Iconic running in two ap in a row which unfortunatly Merisiel is.)
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
They've been chosen. There is at least one repeat.
And there's nothing unfortunate at all with 2 Merisiel APs in a row.
To be fair I actually do like Merisiel as a character I just dislike certain Iconics being favored over others
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And there's nothing unfortunate at all with 2 Merisiel APs in a row.To be fair I actually do like Merisiel as a character I just dislike certain Iconics being favored over others
When officers in the military were afforded certain liberties its called "PoR", or Privilege of Rank.
This is simply a case of PoCD, Privilege of the Creative Director (who happens to be fond of Merisiel).
You guys might not miss having the iconic's stats in the APs but I really will, it was one of my favorite things to look at other than the monsters.
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Second, that's exactly the case... to a point. While you'll definitely be seeing Imrijka illustrated in upcoming Pathfinder projects, by dint of being a half-orc she's not likely to show up on any covers or high profile pieces of art. While our "monster" monster-hunter is still one of our favorite iconics around here, she's one of the few iconics that doesn't scream "HERO!" This makes it harder to use her for marketing and covers, where we're trying to convey a product's content to folks who might not be familiar with Golarion, Pathfinder, or Paizo.
:(
For whatever it's worth, her design hits a "hero" vibe for me at least. Badass red longcoat and all.
Just makes this half-orc fan sad that the race's one (positive, considering the Assassin) representative is going to be kept out of the spotlight so to speak.
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
Now this I'm curious about!
So the group of iconics for Jade regent has been chosen then? Hoping there wont be any repeats in that one (meaning an Iconic running in two ap in a row which unfortunatly Merisiel is.)
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
They've been chosen. There is at least one repeat.
And there's nothing unfortunate at all with 2 Merisiel APs in a row.
Where is the Lemmmmmmm
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Where is the LemmmmmmmSo the group of iconics for Jade regent has been chosen then? Hoping there wont be any repeats in that one (meaning an Iconic running in two ap in a row which unfortunatly Merisiel is.)
Have no fear that Imrijka will have her day in an AP adventuring party, though. While it won't be Jade Regent, we've got something else in mind she might be just perfect for.
They've been chosen. There is at least one repeat.
And there's nothing unfortunate at all with 2 Merisiel APs in a row.
Last I saw him he was being chased by a giant mosquito on page 193 of Bestiary 2! :)
You guys might not miss having the iconic's stats in the APs but I really will, it was one of my favorite things to look at other than the monsters.
Actually, it would be nice to have at least one set of Lvl 1/ Lvl 4/ Lvl 7/ Lvl 10/ Lvl 13/ lvl 16 stats for each of the new Iconics. It is sometimes useful to have a fully statted NPC for when the players go off the reservation and you need a quick character.
You guys might not miss having the iconic's stats in the APs but I really will, it was one of my favorite things to look at other than the monsters.Actually, it would be nice to have at least one set of Lvl 1/ Lvl 4/ Lvl 7/ Lvl 10/ Lvl 13/ lvl 16 stats for each of the new Iconics. It is sometimes useful to have a fully statted NPC for when the players go off the reservation and you need a quick character.
Every iconic at level 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, and 16. Free pdf download. Done. Forever.
I'm sure if someone was okay to donating the hours neccessary to devote to good builds (as opposed to the ones I've seen in the AP's) for all the characters for all those levels, Paizo might even buy it off you and distribute it, or let you do it and maybe even put their blessing on it.
Just realize, every AP has different challenges, so their could well be a shift in abilities of a character depending upon the foes they have to face as they advance,i.e. one size does not fit all as far as AP's and even the iconics go.
Except maybe for Valeros. Can SOMEONE revise his build?!?
===Aelryinth
I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books... the first part I go to every time I receive my new book in the mail. Missing it really takes away for me... especially with the new APG iconics finally making an appearance, and now we don't get write ups for them. This just really, really makes me sad.
Oh but look, we have more big splashy ads in the back of the book... woo-hoo. Again, sad bard misses what he loved.
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Creative Director
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I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books... the first part I go to every time I receive my new book in the mail. Missing it really takes away for me... especially with the new APG iconics finally making an appearance, and now we don't get write ups for them. This just really, really makes me sad.
Oh but look, we have more big splashy ads in the back of the book... woo-hoo. Again, sad bard misses what he loved.
We didn't increase the number of adds at the back of the book. The two pages that went away got assimilated into the articles and adventures as needed.
Except maybe for Valeros. Can SOMEONE revise his build?!?
Off the top of my head, I'd start with something like:
Valeros, NG Male Human Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior archetype) 1
15 Str, 16 Dex (14 +2 race), 12 Con, 13 Int, 8 Wis, 10 Cha
Skills: pick four
Feats: Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Valeros, NG Male Human Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior) 4
16 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 13 Int, 8 Wis, 10 Cha
Feats: Combat Expertise, Double Slice, Improved Dirty Trick, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Valeros, NG Male Human Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior) 7
16 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 13 Int, 8 Wis, 10 Cha
Feats: Combat Expertise, Double Slice, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved Dirty Trick, Iron Will, Power Attack, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus; note, at 8th level, take +1 Dex and the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat
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I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books... the first part I go to every time I receive my new book in the mail. Missing it really takes away for me... especially with the new APG iconics finally making an appearance, and now we don't get write ups for them. This just really, really makes me sad.
Oh but look, we have more big splashy ads in the back of the book... woo-hoo. Again, sad bard misses what he loved.
We got 1st level builds for all the APG Iconics in the 2010 Free RPG Day release, Master of the Fallen Fortress. No backstory blurbs, but starting, 1st level stats for all six.
I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books...
Ser... seriously? I mean, we've been rehashing if not outright copying that content for 40-some issues. To each his own and all, but if you want pregenerated characters I feel like we have numerous outlets for PC friendly statblocks (modules, free modules, the GMG, Pathfinder Society, the NPC Guide, the upcoming Rival Guide, etc). Not a lot of outlets for more Adventure Path content, though, which is what folks get now.
We knew this change - in fact, any change - would bother some folks, so if enough people voice their opinion here that they'd like the adventure or any of its support material to shrink back down so we can put the pre-gens back in, we're totally happy to listen!
Actually, the thing to do would be to build the Iconics for the adventure organically, instead of generically...and maybe even including some 3.5 stuff.
I mean, you got an AP full of undead and Incorps. WHat spellcaster is NOT going to take Ectoplasmic Spell? And be tossing around a LOT of force effects?
Tack on Energized Spell from Book of Exalted Deeds, and Banespell (Undead) and you've quite a undead slaying wizard.
For fighters...accentuate your weapon spec with Necropotence (+4 dmg vs undead).
Do you REALLY expect PC's in an undead adventure NOT to have Ghost Touch armor and weapons?
The focus on Dex builders and deflection/luck/insight bonuses to protect against touch attacks would be high.
Sheoni would be taking REAMS of extra Spells Known with her Favored Class ability...
Wouldn't our lovely paladin be rebuilt as an undead killer?...
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I too, love looking at the pregen PC's, but they're horribly under-made. I mean, Serpent's Skull...half your fighting and more is against monstrous humanoids, ape-guys and snake-guys. The only monstrous humanoid bane weapon is a trident you find...it's like not having Giant Bane for Rise of the Runelords.
Of course, paying guys to actually stat up organic Iconics that evolve with the module (including unique loot from earlier modules) probably isn't what you'd want to do. Otherwise, I'd say build them as PDF's and release for free.
The best thing is, once you DO build them by level, swapping stuff in and out becomes pretty easy for an successive modules...
It's just like back in the old TSR days...open up the module, and flip to the back to see the PC's you could take through it...:)
Etc etc.
===Aelryinth
Every iconic at level 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, and 16. Free pdf download. Done. Forever.
We've talked about doing this for a long time and I think it's a great idea. So does everyone else here. The trick, though, is that while we're a crushed by our schedule as we are and frequently miss as many deadlines as we do adding more work to the staff is not an option. We've made some changes recently that seem to be helping with this and still have a job opening for a new developer, so I'm hoping that in the next few months here things will get easier around here and we'll have time for more fun bits like this. But until we get the products we sell under better control, free products are going to be few and far between.
That said, it's Tuesday and the design staff do a new design blog every Thursday. If you start making some noise in some of the RPG General forums you might be able to convince Hyrum and Jason and his crew to start tackling a statblock or an iconic every week. It would take a bit, but at the end that's something we could pretty easily compile.
But, one way or another, it's not going to happen unless folks say the want it, so if you do, it might be worth heading over to those forums and making some noise!
Every iconic at level 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, and 16. Free pdf download. Done. Forever.We've talked about doing this for a long time and I think it's a great idea. So does everyone else here. The trick, though, is that while we're a crushed by our schedule as we are and frequently miss as many deadlines as we do adding more work to the staff is not an option. We've made some changes recently that seem to be helping with this and still have a job opening for a new developer, so I'm hoping that in the next few months here things will get easier around here and we'll have time for more fun bits like this. But until we get the products we sell under better control, free products are going to be few and far between.
That said, it's Tuesday and the design staff do a new design blog every Thursday. If you start making some noise in some of the RPG General forums you might be able to convince Hyrum and Jason and his crew to start tackling a statblock or an iconic every week. It would take a bit, but at the end that's something we could pretty easily compile.
But, one way or another, it's not going to happen unless folks say the want it, so if you do, it might be worth heading over to those forums and making some noise!
Making the iconics at every level would be Great in the way the oncoming Rival Guide is Great.
However, AP"s are organic, and the characters that go through them should reflect the fact from earlier modules and feats that go with them. See above post, i.e. you're never going to build Sheoni with Ectoplasmic Spell, but in an undead centered adventure, it's practically a MUST to have.
==Aelryinth
We didn't increase the number of adds at the back of the book. The two pages that went away got assimilated into the articles and adventures as needed.
A thought on the freed-up space:
I have been thinking that a 1-page sheet at the back of each volume, with sort of checklist of "these are the major encounters you need to complete (or replace with your own) for the plot to make sense in this volume", would be a useful thing. The Advancement Track sidebar could be worked into the same, reminding GMs that "The PCs should be level X when they reach *this* part".
Additionally, for the GMs who (like me) have trouble letting the PCs have downtime between parts of adventures, more indications of "downtime of X is expected between encounters 1-4 and 5-8 in this volume" might be helpful.
We didn't increase the number of adds at the back of the book. The two pages that went away got assimilated into the articles and adventures as needed.A thought on the freed-up space:
I have been thinking that a 1-page sheet at the back of each volume, with sort of checklist of "these are the major encounters you need to complete (or replace with your own) for the plot to make sense in this volume", would be a useful thing. The Advancement Track sidebar could be worked into the same, reminding GMs that "The PCs should be level X when they reach *this* part".
Additionally, for the GMs who (like me) have trouble letting the PCs have downtime between parts of adventures, more indications of "downtime of X is expected between encounters 1-4 and 5-8 in this volume" might be helpful.
+1 to this brilliant idea
Any sort of chart-based (not paragraphs!) "GM's helper" would be a great asset.
I miss the iconics because their primary usage was to laugh with my group members about their weird choices, like how Ezren is wearing bracers of armor +7 and still prepares mage armor.
I'm not at all sad to see them go. Their only real usage for me-- "How much treasure should the party have at this level?" suddenly became moot when I realized they didn't actually pick up any treasure from the module and just followed WBL.
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I miss the iconics because their primary usage was to laugh with my group members about their weird choices, like how Ezren is wearing bracers of armor +7 and still prepares mage armor.
If you've got some spare 1st level slots, then its not completely unheard of to have mage armour up since it pretty much lasts all day and protects you from incorporeal stuff. (Or it used to - never quite sure what has changed from 3.5)
But yeah, I enjoy laughing at the iconics. One adventure required frequent Will saves, with increasing DCs when you start failing them; I wondered if they are playtested using the iconics in the back, because anyone playing Valeros in that one might as well not have bothered turning up.
Actually, the thing to do would be to build the Iconics for the adventure organically, instead of generically...and maybe even including some 3.5 stuff.
I mean, you got an AP full of undead and Incorps. WHat spellcaster is NOT going to take Ectoplasmic Spell? And be tossing around a LOT of force effects?
Tack on Energized Spell from Book of Exalted Deeds, and Banespell (Undead) and you've quite a undead slaying wizard.
For fighters...accentuate your weapon spec with Necropotence (+4 dmg vs undead).
Do you REALLY expect PC's in an undead adventure NOT to have Ghost Touch armor and weapons?
The focus on Dex builders and deflection/luck/insight bonuses to protect against touch attacks would be high.
Sheoni would be taking REAMS of extra Spells Known with her Favored Class ability...
Wouldn't our lovely paladin be rebuilt as an undead killer?...
============
I too, love looking at the pregen PC's, but they're horribly under-made. I mean, Serpent's Skull...half your fighting and more is against monstrous humanoids, ape-guys and snake-guys. The only monstrous humanoid bane weapon is a trident you find...it's like not having Giant Bane for Rise of the Runelords.Of course, paying guys to actually stat up organic Iconics that evolve with the module (including unique loot from earlier modules) probably isn't what you'd want to do. Otherwise, I'd say build them as PDF's and release for free.
The best thing is, once you DO build them by level, swapping stuff in and out becomes pretty easy for an successive modules...
It's just like back in the old TSR days...open up the module, and flip to the back to see the PC's you could take through it...:)
Etc etc.
===Aelryinth
I know I was very disappointed when I picked up Crown of Fangs, and saw that Seelah's stat block made no mention of her wielding Serithtiel. But I guess that kind of customization per module would take way too much time and money; that being the case, I'd say its for the best that the increasingly redundant iconic stat blocks are repurposed to expand the adventure and/or the articles.
Every iconic at level 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, and 16. Free pdf download. Done. Forever.We've talked about doing this for a long time and I think it's a great idea. So does everyone else here. The trick, though, is that while we're a crushed by our schedule as we are and frequently miss as many deadlines as we do adding more work to the staff is not an option. We've made some changes recently that seem to be helping with this and still have a job opening for a new developer, so I'm hoping that in the next few months here things will get easier around here and we'll have time for more fun bits like this. But until we get the products we sell under better control, free products are going to be few and far between.
That said, it's Tuesday and the design staff do a new design blog every Thursday. If you start making some noise in some of the RPG General forums you might be able to convince Hyrum and Jason and his crew to start tackling a statblock or an iconic every week. It would take a bit, but at the end that's something we could pretty easily compile.
But, one way or another, it's not going to happen unless folks say the want it, so if you do, it might be worth heading over to those forums and making some noise!
I think this would be a great idea to have them as a download. Most of their stat blocks are already made up so at least whole new characters wouldn't have to be built. Then you guys could just give a party suggestion in each ap or module.
I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books...Ser... seriously? I mean, we've been rehashing if not outright copying that content for 40-some issues. To each his own and all, but if you want pregenerated characters I feel like we have numerous outlets for PC friendly statblocks (modules, free modules, the GMG, Pathfinder Society, the NPC Guide, the upcoming Rival Guide, etc). Not a lot of outlets for more Adventure Path content, though, which is what folks get now.
We knew this change - in fact, any change - would bother some folks, so if enough people voice their opinion here that they'd like the adventure or any of its support material to shrink back down so we can put the pre-gens back in, we're totally happy to listen!
Some people would be upset if you printed the book on gold tablets and gave them away for free....
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Creative Director
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Some people would be upset if you printed the book on gold tablets and gave them away for free....I'm truly deeply saddened by the loss of the iconic write ups in Carrion Crown. I'm an AP subscriber and this has always been my favorite part of the books...Ser... seriously? I mean, we've been rehashing if not outright copying that content for 40-some issues. To each his own and all, but if you want pregenerated characters I feel like we have numerous outlets for PC friendly statblocks (modules, free modules, the GMG, Pathfinder Society, the NPC Guide, the upcoming Rival Guide, etc). Not a lot of outlets for more Adventure Path content, though, which is what folks get now.
We knew this change - in fact, any change - would bother some folks, so if enough people voice their opinion here that they'd like the adventure or any of its support material to shrink back down so we can put the pre-gens back in, we're totally happy to listen!
None more upset than our warehouse staff, I'd wager.
I miss the iconics because their primary usage was to laugh with my group members about their weird choices, like how Ezren is wearing bracers of armor +7 and still prepares mage armor.
I'm not at all sad to see them go. Their only real usage for me-- "How much treasure should the party have at this level?" suddenly became moot when I realized they didn't actually pick up any treasure from the module and just followed WBL.
The mage armor is for another character...ups their incorp touch AC.
It's interesting to note that on a cost basis, bracers of armor are one of the MOST expensive ways to increase your AC. Since you get mage armor for free, buying Bracers of Armor +5 effectively costs 25,000 gp for +1 AC...getting bracers should be one of the LAST ways a mage ups their AC, and it'll get delayed even further if you use Greater Mage Armor at +6.
From a pure WBL +AC standpoint, I wouldn't expect any mage to give up mage armor until probably level 14 or higher. Much more efficient to max out Nat Armor, Deflection, Dex and whatnot first.
===Aelryinth
None more upset than our warehouse staff, I'd wager.Some people would be upset if you printed the book on gold tablets and gave them away for free....
I was going to suggest whoever got to do the delivery runs, but on second thoughts, nope, you're right. The warehouse staff probably would be the most upset.