Michael Jackson and Batman in Skinsaw (Spoilers many) For Black Raven

[Stereofm]

Hiya,

So we at last concluded Skinsaw last sunday... despite every attempt of my players at slowing the game and not picking clues.

So

Spoiler:

My main problems were : Okay, my players were in Magnimar, but were having trouble piecing together the Brothers clues.

None of them were good enough to decipher the journal of the judge quick enough, and they had shot the messengers accidentally without pause ... so they could not follow them to the lair of Little Miss TPK ...

But since they had made a point of being seen in town hoping the bad guys would get to them ...

And there was this "Scarecrow" guy ...

And I love Batman comics ...

I decided to have the Scarecrow pay them a friendly visit. Oh, and improve him a bit. Like special attack "Fear and hallucination gas special night".

So when they came home to Aldern's house after slaughtering the cultists ... They noticed that their door had been tampered with, and found suspicious bits of straw.

Then after three rounds inside (just the time to climb the stairs), I asked them to roll will saves (all failed) Vs confusion ... as they saw lots of small tombs appearing all around the battlemap ... and I started putting lots of Goblin minis on the map, emerging from the map... and they recognized the goblins from Thistletop they had butchered ...

Then the Bard player exclaimed ... "It's Thriller !!!" And we let out the MJ tune while duking it out against Scarecrow...

Of course, my players having their over-optimized, scary psychopath butchers characters, I had to cheat to keep the scarecrow alive so they could follow it this time ...

But Hey ! How awesome was that ?

(This post by request of my players)

Opinions ?

[Ravenot]

Just my input and opinion on 'directing' the players a certain direction, if I may. Hopefully this advice may help improve your game. If the players are missing clues or failing to put two-and-two together, I try to find alternative ways to encourage the party to piece together what they need on their own rather than handing it to them and railroading them toward an inevitable conclusion regardless of their own actions. Lay the path, but don't push them down it.

Otherwise iv'e found that your players will start developing a sense of no consequences and entitlement. Who cares about sneaking, diplomacy, or fact finding when you can stab everything first and ask questions later after you've absconded with all their loot? The players get the idea to grab all the treasure and exp that you can and wreck the hotel room because the next plot point will fall into their lap anyways because their just riding the rails.

Once you give a sense of consequence and unknown, the party will be much more careful and inquisitive. Instead of killing everything, they may be more open to questioning, fact finding, and thinking ahead. I feel that when the party earns their own way and figures out the next clue on their own, it gives a better sense of accomplishment and reward.

You can anticipate these things and help the party figure things out along on their own without handing it to them. I had a few stab-happy players who liked to kill anything that moved without actually questioning if what they were killing was the enemy or not. I wanted to try and keep the Clockwork Librarian in book 4 alive to assist the party (as they would need as much assistance in their research as they could get). As it was, i expected it to be slaughtered on the first round they saw it. I inserted the module Seven Swords of Sin between book 3 and 4 of Rise of the Runelords, and added a similar clockwork librarian to the module. As expected, they killed it within the first round, but were surprised when it died with little to no effort without being overly aggressive. When encountering the Librarian in book 4, they held their actions and observed it first to discover it's true purpose.

Now I could have just forgot about introducing the earlier Clockwork and cheated with the one in book 4 and not allowed it to die if attacked, but then i'd be removing direct consequence of their actions. If my players screw up or miss clues, they deal with the results. So i try to make their screw ups smaller and let them learn from them before they hit the bigger ones that matter. :)

I've made my group work hard for clues when they've dropped the ball and let things get screwed up. They're more efficient and careful as they go along now, which is great! They barely miss a thing now.

Hope that helps.

BTW: I love the scarecrow in their house idea. Keeps them on their toes! :D

[Stereofm]

Thanks for the input, but that in fact was hardly the problem (my comment was more snark and taunt for them than anything as I know they're reading). :)

My players do pick clues and are in fact heavy roleplayers. Overly so, sometimes : they take too much time on this. The problem is that at some point, after THREE FULL sessions of RPing in Magnimar sleuthing while disguised as Foxglove, (and also investigating side plots) they were no closer to their goal, and moreover had painted themselves into a corner as they were in the end after totally the wrong culprit.

Spoiler:

Right then, they wanted to barge in, smash Pug's locks and beat the locksmith until he confessed to "everything". Since I ruled that this guy was absolutely innocent, he would not have talked, and they might have killed him. And since I ruled he would be silenced anyways by the real bad guys, that would have been an entire party framed up for murder.

I just don't see how that would have been fun, and it would have put us in a dead end.

Also there are not enough clues really to cover every situation.

Spoiler:

There are only three clues pointing you to the clock tower :
- The book of Ironbriar which is heavily crypted, and none of them had the skills. With spells, they could have unlocked it in about one week.
long and difficult. And why would the bad guys stay around for the week ? Also, if they asked for external help, they'd have to explain where and on which body they'd found it.
- Interrogating Ironbriar himself, assuming they can get him alive (they did not). Sure, and then, you would trust what a priest of the god of MURDER would say ?
- Following the Ravens : they shot them first thing in the mill as a security measure

That's hardly fair as giving clues go, so I had to do something. Might as well make it fun.

[Stereofm]

I'll have to post my group at some point and do a real campagn journal, that would also explain how we got there, but since some of the PCs still carry secrets, that would not be fair at this point.