Creating Creature / NPC Questions

[Misery]

Ok so before I put down 4th edition all I used were the pregen monsters, creatures, and npcs. Now that I'm using it again I'm trying to figure out this creating your own monster/npc thing.

In general the idea seems pretty laid out and easy with just some confusing aspects to be had I was hoping I could get help with.

For example, I'm looking to create a shadow fey of sorts. A one of a kind creature/guy who taps into powers of the shadow (will likely be easier when Shadowfell comes out with more ideas). I thought about making him an NPC at first but I didn't find any of those base lines fitting, I guess. I'm looking for something between the Nightwalker in the first MM as well as the Shade template in Forgotten Realms campaign setting.

Anyway, my real question lies when building about adding class features to said creature. One example being that for this character I wanted to add the Swordmage Warding class feature that when he has just one weapon in his hand, his AC goes up by 3 (calling it Shadowblade Warding instead but the premise is the same). Can I do that with it being a "creature" build? Could I do it if I switched him to an NPC instead?

Also, can I give either a creature or an NPC a magical weapon/armor so long as it wasn't above their character level? (This would be a higher level solo encounter if anyone's curious). If I gave them such things, does the weapon/armor increase their attack/ac as it would a normal character?

Also do their stats affect their AC or to hit at all or is it stuck at the base given when you prebuild it?

[Matthew Koelbl]

Misery wrote:

Anyway, my real question lies when building about adding class features to said creature. One example being that for this character I wanted to add the Swordmage Warding class feature that when he has just one weapon in his hand, his AC goes up by 3 (calling it Shadowblade Warding instead but the premise is the same). Can I do that with it being a "creature" build?

The easy answer here is 'yes' - creature design is as much art as science, and you can generally add and subtract abilities as seems appropriate. The main issue is just making sure the final result isn't too unbalanced. If his final AC is 2-3 points higher than most enemies, that seems to be what you are going for. If it is more than that, though, I'd be cautious - you don't want to make him too tough to hit, or can end up with a lot of grind in the combat.

Misery wrote:

Could I do it if I switched him to an NPC instead?

This is the easier route. Building him as an NPC (either by making him as an NPC from the ground up, or adding an NPC template to an existing creature, making it elite) should make it much easier to add class abilities at the right level of balance. But, again, it can always be worth it to glance at the final result and make sure the numbers don't look too out of line with existing creations.

Misery wrote:

Also, can I give either a creature or an NPC a magical weapon/armor so long as it wasn't above their character level?

Yes and no. Monsters have a certain amount of 'bonuses' built in, to represent their capabilities without having to actually stat them all out with magic gear (or overload the PCs with buckets of +1 longswords). There is a chart, in the DMG, which shows what benefits a creature can get from a magic weapon or armor - but usually it will only give them a slight boost from their normal numbers. It actually likely won't have any effect unless it is, in fact, a higher level item.

Of course, I'd say there is nothing wrong with giving them an item, intended as a powerful treasure for the PCs, that the monster happens to be using at the time.

Misery wrote:

If I gave them such things, does the weapon/armor increase their attack/ac as it would a normal character?

Not like a normal character, but it does usually have an effect - I don't have the table on hand, but am pretty sure it is somewhere in the monster or NPC design rules in the DMG.

Misery wrote:

Also do their stats affect their AC or to hit at all or is it stuck at the base given when you prebuild it?

Defenses and attacks are theoretically tied directly to level, and only really modified by temporary bonuses, magic items, or specific abilities you might give them. Some can go up when you apply various templates.

Now, you can also just go ahead and fiddle with defenses as appropriate. You want one human guard to be a tough but lumbering fellow, so boost his Fort and reduce his Ref. Variation is good!

But, again, it is usually worth checking the final result to make sure the numbers are going to lead to a good fight, rather than be a drag one way or another.

Misery wrote:

(This would be a higher level solo encounter if anyone's curious).

I'd be interested in seeing what the final result is that you are looking at. Solo fights can definitely be tricky, especially when trying to represent just one exceptional person rather than an actual monster like a dragon.

Also, it may seem a bit late (having already answered all your questions!) but my advice for finding a good solo would probably be to look at existing ones - even ones that have nothing to do with Shadow - and find a good one to simply reflavor as a shadow fey and level up or down to the appropriate place.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Regarding Giving Magic Items to Monsters
Mathew is correct that giving the monsters magic items has little effect. However you may consider house ruling that at least in part. I've found that giving the monsters the items power (and there usually is some power associated with a magic item) often improves the scene. Magic items tend to only be held by boss type monsters and often in one of the climatic fights of the adventure so having these guys get a few extra powers is usually fine - especially is bad guy numbers are on the low side. Something I encounter a lot as I tend to do conversions.

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

Defenses and attacks are theoretically tied directly to level, and only really modified by temporary bonuses, magic items, or specific abilities you might give them. Some can go up when you apply various templates.

I don't think this is strictly true. At least not with defenses. Kobolds have such high reflex saves because of their good dexterity. That said I think there is some kind of cap. Playing with this in the monster builder I noticed that I could lower the kobolds reflex defense by lowering its dexterity, but boosting it to insane levels did not raise the reflex (it did raise the initiative bonus to insane levels).

[Sebastrd]

Misery wrote:

Ok so before I put down 4th edition all I used were the pregen monsters, creatures, and npcs. Now that I'm using it again I'm trying to figure out this creating your own monster/npc thing.

I think I can answer all of your questions pretty simply by just giving you the tried and true "Sebastrd's Monster/NPC Creation Formula".

Step 1: Answer the following questions: What is the monster's role (brute, lurker, leader, etc.)? How badass does it need to be (solo, elite, minion)? What level? Any specific type (undead, fey, elemental, etc.)?

Step 2: Find an existing monster that is roughly the same level, role, type, etc.

Step 3: Describe your monster exactly as you envisioned, while using the existing monster's stat block.

(OPTIONAL): Reskin as needed by stripping away powers that don't fit, adding powers from other monsters that do fit, or changing powers to do appropriate damage types (poison, fire, cold, necrotic, etc.).

The main thing to understand is that it doesn't matter at all what is in the stat block. On paper, it doesn't matter if a +3 AC is from the swordmage class feature, a magic shield, supernatural armor, lightning fast reflexes, or a divine aura. What matters is how you describe the creature. You can give any monster a vicious, serrated edged flaming greatsword without making a single adjustment to the stat block. You might change the damage its melee attacks to a d12 and add the fire type, but there's no need to fiddle with attack bonuses or anything. The premade monsters are generally already balanced, so the hard work is done for you. There's no need to reinvent the wheel.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

I'm very close to Sebastard's method as well.

What you seem to be describing is a kind of Shadowfell Badass.

If I wanted to make this guy I'd boot up the Monster Builder, a program that is practically misnamed because its really the monster 'tweaker'.

I'd do a search for Sadar-Kai. Those shadowfell elf like dudes seem to fit with what your going for. I'd search through the various incarnations of Sadar-Kai until I found one I liked. I'd adjust the level until I got what I wanted.

If I'm looking for a real 'badass' feel then I'm sticking with a standard monster but tossing something somewhat higher in level at my players. 4 levels higher then them but still standard conveys badass quite well simply because defences and the bonus to hit are really good...your bad ass monster will rarely miss and be hard to hit - you players will notice. Still be something of a glass cannon though because standard monsters, even with some extra levels don't have all that many hps. Compare and contrast to an elite version of a monster closer to their level - then his stats and to hit are about the same as the players but he has a ton of hps and will last significantly longer**.

Now I have my Shadowfell Badass but I need to flavour him correctly. If I'm lucky some of the powers of the Sadar-Kai work here. Maybe a bit or renaming and changing of some key words but I picked this Sadar-Kai for a reason and that was probably for a few powers that would cross over. I also delete any powers I don't want at this step.

About here I would add any specific powers that really defined my vision of the monster that where not SwordMage specific. Don't go overboard to much, especially if your adding a class template because those come with a boatload of powers.

At this point I'm pretty much at the part where I'm going to add my Swordmage Template. Personally I find this part easier to do in my word processor. This is mainly because WotC has not yet added templates to the Monster Builder (been over a year now which is unbelievably tardy). This presumes that this guy is unique. If, for some reason I felt I was going to use this monster many times in the future I go through the hassle of putting his template onto the monster Builder because it'll be faster the next 5 times I use this monster.

Presuming the guy is unique I download the monster as Richtext and then flip over to the Swordmage template in DMG2. I'll pretty much follow along with those instructions modifying as I go.

Hopefully your monster is now made but if its not and you still need a few more powers (very unlikely with a class template but it does come up with other monsters - especially Monster Manual I solo's). Here I'll go searching for insperation. You can search powers in the Monster Builder but really the Compendium is my preferred method simply because it seems easier to read (most of the page instead of off in one corner) and it has better search and filter features. I'd pop around powers from the shadow source starting with ones near the desired level to see if there is any inspiration there. If not I'd start looking as Fey or Shadow Fell monsters starting around the appropriate level and see if these give me a cool idea to work with.

**In a similar vein but off topic for the current monster you can have fun making a monster 2 or 3 levels lower then the PCs but a Solo. Great for Maug 'The Fat' Chieftain of Goblins. He has a tough time hitting and he is easy to hit but he has several action points and a ton of hps.

[Misery]

Another question.

Can you make an NPC into a solo encounter using the rules for solo encounter under the creature section?

Also, from what I understand, NPCs are considered elite by default? If so and you add an elite template (I've got something semi similar to the vampire lord meshed with the Shade from Forgotten Realms), do they stay just elite or does it go solo then? If it stays elite, does the CR go up?

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Your terminology is confusing me slightly. When you say NPC I generally think of a creature - usually one of the standard races - with more of a speaking part then a a combat part. Here I'm guessing you mean some kind of a creature with a class template.

Scaling something up into a solo basically involves adding templates on top of the base creature (or just applying the solo template).

A standard creature that has a template added to it becomes elite. An elite creature becomes a solo. Its perfectly possible to take a standard creature and add two templates to it - if you do so it becomes a solo.

Misery wrote:

Another question.

Can you make an NPC into a solo encounter using the rules for solo encounter under the creature section?

If the creature already has a class template then it would be an elite creature. If it is elite then you can make it a solo by adding the elite template or by adding another template.

Misery wrote:

Also, from what I understand, NPCs are considered elite by default? If so and you add an elite template (I've got something semi similar to the vampire lord meshed with the Shade from Forgotten Realms), do they stay just elite or does it go solo then? If it stays elite, does the CR go up?

There is no such thing really as CR though creatures do have levels. An elite creature such as one that is either elite by default (not uncommon for something like a Vampire) or one with some sort of a template would become a solo if you added another template, including if you added the elite template.

So far as I can tell there are no rules for scaling up a creature once its reached Solo status and I suggest that its probably to be avoided as the number of hps likely becomes excessive. Solo's already have bucko hps.

[Misery]

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Your terminology is confusing me slightly. When you say NPC I generally think of a creature - usually one of the standard races - with more of a speaking part then a a combat part. Here I'm guessing you mean some kind of a creature with a class template.

Scaling something up into a solo basically involves adding templates on top of the base creature (or just applying the solo template).

A standard creature that has a template added to it becomes elite. An elite creature becomes a solo. Its perfectly possible to take a standard creature and add two templates to it - if you do so it becomes a solo.

Misery wrote:

Another question.

Can you make an NPC into a solo encounter using the rules for solo encounter under the creature section?

If the creature already has a class template then it would be an elite creature. If it is elite then you can make it a solo by adding the elite template or by adding another template.

Misery wrote:

Also, from what I understand, NPCs are considered elite by default? If so and you add an elite template (I've got something semi similar to the vampire lord meshed with the Shade from Forgotten Realms), do they stay just elite or does it go solo then? If it stays elite, does the CR go up?

There is no such thing really as CR though creatures do have levels. An elite creature such as one that is either elite by default (not uncommon for something like a Vampire) or one with some sort of a template would become a solo if you added another template, including if you added the elite template.

So far as I can tell there are no rules for scaling up a creature once its reached Solo status and I suggest that its probably to be avoided as the number of hps likely becomes excessive. Solo's already have bucko hps.

Sorry about the "CR" thing ... still trying to kick that term and stick it with levels. Yes, I suppose I just mean creature over NPC ... I just use the word NPC for non monster races (humanoids, etc) and trying to stick this new stuff down. You've answered all the questions I had though so all is well. Thanks again for the quick aid.