I have an idea that is not fully fleshed out and wanted to run it past some other minds and see what happens.
No full round actions. Instead everything falls under the other normal action types.
Standard.
Move.
Swift.
Free.
Immediate.
When you would gain an iterative attack at +6 BAB you gain the ability to use your move action for the attack. At +11 a swift action for an an attack and at +16 allowed to make one attack as a free action per round.
Make two weapon fighting grant an immediate action that is triggered using a standard action to make an attack, imp two weapon fighting triggered immediate when using a move action to make an attack, ect..
Casting a full round spell uses a standard action to start to cast and a free action at the start or your next turn to finish.
Shifting 5' is a swift action that can be done only once per round. (replaces the normal 5' step)
Monks need work, thinking or dropping flurry and just giving them two weapon fighting bonus feats....not sure yet.
Pro's
- allows for more movement
- lets a gish use a standard action to cast a spell and then if high enough BAB still use his move action to attack.
- lets people feel like they are doing more in their round
Just something that's been crawling around in my head the last few weeks and wanted to get it out there.
Current Pathfinder rules make Monk's flurry of blows Two Weapon Fighting with follow up feats, actually, with a greatly improved BAB at higher levels and reduction of TWF penalties.
I was thinking about removing iterative attacks for some time.
Note that this would effectively allow Fighters to use Vital Strike at least once per turn (on first attack) or possibly on every attack if you want to consider each of those attacks "attack action".
I have an idea that is not fully fleshed out and wanted to run it past some other minds and see what happens.
No full round actions. Instead everything falls under the other normal action types.
Standard.
Move.
Swift.
Free.
Immediate.When you would gain an iterative attack at +6 BAB you gain the ability to use your move action for the attack. At +11 a swift action for an an attack and at +16 allowed to make one attack as a free action per round.
Make two weapon fighting grant an immediate action that is triggered using a standard action to make an attack, imp two weapon fighting triggered immediate when using a move action to make an attack, ect..
Casting a full round spell uses a standard action to start to cast and a free action at the start or your next turn to finish.
Shifting 5' is a swift action that can be done only once per round. (replaces the normal 5' step)
Monks need work, thinking or dropping flurry and just giving them two weapon fighting bonus feats....not sure yet.
Pro's
- allows for more movement
- lets a gish use a standard action to cast a spell and then if high enough BAB still use his move action to attack.
- lets people feel like they are doing more in their roundJust something that's been crawling around in my head the last few weeks and wanted to get it out there.
It seems like a small change, so that's good. The only thing that kind of jumped out at me was the replacing the 5'step. You then are actually making some characters less mobile. Example: An Eldritch Knight could not make a 5' step attack someone and then use their class ability to channel a touch spell, because they had already used their swift action.
So that part seems to be an unnecessary change.
I never liked the "1 full round spell" thing anyway. If you're going to flesh this idea out, I suggest making the Full Round spell take a Standard and a Move action. Likewise, adding a metamagic feat spontaneously should cost the same (except for Quicken Spell, of course).
Another way to invoke iterative attacks is how it's done in the Star Wars Saga edition: You only get extra attacks if you take feats, and ALL the attacks suffer an attack penalty. Unfortunately, I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't remember if the feats require more than a standard action or not.
Actually one of things that I liked in 4th edition was change in the action types (standard, move, minor, oportunity and immediate) and replacing 5-ft step with shifting.
I take it the attack penalties are linked to the sort of action the attack is? (I.E. a standard action attack is full BAB, a move action attack is BAB -5, and a swift action attack is -10?)
So if I have three iterative attacks, I could:
- Take a move action to move
- Use my standard action to make my Full BAB attack
- Use my swift action to make another attack at -10 BAB
Or even pull such shenanigans as:
- Cast a standard action spell
- Attack as a move action at -5
Is that correct?
I actually rather like this idea. (The change to 5-foot step isn't necessary, though.)
Some archetypes will have to be modified, though, like the mobile fighter (who gains the ability to full attack and move by giving up his highest BAB attack), the two weapon warrior (who gains the ability to attack with both weapons as a standard action), and the magus Spell Combat ability.
Exactly, the move action attack is taken at a -5 and the swift at -10.
5 foot step being limited to once per round but being a free action is good that does make more sense so you can still get all attacks in and 5 foot step.
The immediate actions associated with two weapon fighting would give the triggering attack a -2 penalty and work off that attack roll, so the math all works out the same.
I am glad others kinda like it I was not sure about the idea, I just wanted more movement in combat without giving people full attack and move action plus this lets higher level spell caster get some attacks in. Also great for paladins and rangers who want to self buff and still use move action to attack.
Edit: Not to mention Dragons casting a spell by forgoing the bite attack, and other nasty things the monsters can do with this, whats good for the goose is great for the gander.
Sort of reminds me of Arduin back in the day, where you had actions, instead, by 20th lvl you had your movement and 5 actions if you were melee based, you could choose to do anything with those 5 actions, make another movement to an ally take an action to give them a healing potion, or attack an adjacent foe giving your ally support, or both if you used your actions accordingly.
|
I don't think this would work that well honestly... Dragon's receive Claw, Claw, Bite, Wing, Wing, Tail as their full attack during the higher levels but in normal pathfinder if they take a move action then they can only make one of those attacks (Bite for the most part). The problem being that that wasn't even taking an amulet of the fist with speed into account. At a certain point, characters and monsters can receive so many attacks that your proposed system would have a hard time justifying what actions these attacks are coming from.
Monks can easily get up to 8 attacks starting at 16th level in a round by spending a ki point (as a swift action). That's not taking into Medusa's Wrath or even the remotest possibility that an Amulet of the Fist with speed attached might stack with that Ki Point.
You system would have to take into account several attacks that wouldn't normally fit into the system...
yeah it's a work in progress right now
For the dragon I would probably go with Bite=standard, Wings=move (second wing working like twf), Claws=swift (again like twf) ,tail slap (free action once per round)
For the monk, I know that is a tough nut to crack one option would be to give them full BAB and the TWF feat tree as bonus feats instead of flurry of blows. The ki point thing can be a free action that spend once per round deal.
I know not perfect but I still like the idea of more options in a round are better and more movement in a round is funner.