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So my gaming group recently started Kingmaker, and being the awesome DM that I am, I've been spending lots of time reading these boards and making sure I fully understood the rules for everything. I saw someone post in the "Kingdom Building" thread an idea based around Temples of different gods providing different bonuses, and I wanted to expand on that. I did not bother with Shrines, as I felt they were too small to really need different bonuses, but did want to go that route with Temples and Cathedrals.
Both of these structures provided the same overall bonus of +4 (to whatever), so I had to make sure there were enough differences. With the Temples I mostly changed what bonuses they provided, along with what buildings they got half cost on. Maybe one gave half cost to a Park instead of a Graveyard, a Library instead of a Monument, or a City Wall instead of a Shrine. In a few spots I also increased the magic items they provided at the sacrifice of a +1 bonus... though I am not sure if one extra magic item is worth the +1. Maybe two?
When it came to Cathedrals, I really wanted to make them stand out. I took away 2 of the Loyalty they provided, replacing it instead with a unique bonus akin to that religion.
Anyhow, check them out, and give me some feedback. I haven't gotten to the Kingdom Building portion of my game yet, so I may be over or underestimating some of the trade-offs. Let me know if you think anything is too good, or not good enough.
TEMPLES
Normal Rules: Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.
A temple can only be built if the kingdom's alignment is within two steps of the deity's alignment. A temple dedicated to Calistria, for example, could only be built in a True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or Chaotic Evil Kingdom.
Erastil (LG): Halves cost of Park, Mill, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.
Iomedae (LG): Halves cost of Graveyard, Watchtower, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +3, Stability +1; Unrest –2.
Torag (LG): Halves cost of Graveyard, Smith, and City Wall in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +1, Stability +3; Unrest –2.
Sarenrae (NG): Halves cost of Park, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.
Shelyn (NG): Halves cost of Park, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Economy +1, Stability +3; Unrest –2.
Desna (CG): Halves cost of Park, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +3, Stability +1; Unrest –2.
Cayden Cailean (CG): Halves cost of Graveyard, Brewery, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Economy +2, Loyalty +3, Stability -1; Unrest –2.
Abadar (LN): Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shop in same city; 3 minor items; Economy +3; Unrest –2.
Irori (LN): Halves cost of Park, Library, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +1, Stability +3; Unrest –2.
Gozreh (N): Halves cost of Park, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.
Pharasma (N): Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +1, Stability +3; Unrest –2.
Nethys (N): Halves cost of Graveyard, Library, and Shrine in same city; 3 minor items; Economy +1, Loyalty +1, Stability +1; Unrest –2.
Gorum (CN): Halves cost of Graveyard, Smith, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +3, Stability +1; Unrest –2.
Calistria (CN): Halves cost of Brothel, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +1, Stability +3; Unrest –2.
Asmodeus (LE): Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.
Zon-Kuthon (LE): Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +3, Stability +1; Unrest –2.
You will notice that I didn't include the NE or CE gods/goddesses in this list. You are free to add them for your own home game, but I just couldn't see how a Temple to one of those gods would really function. A Temple to Norgorber pretty much endorses murder, a Temple to Urgathoa means Disease and Gluttony will run rampant, and I'm sure most of you can imagine what the problems with a Temple of Rovagug or Lamashtu would be. In any event, the LE gods I felt could work, but the other ones could not. The same will apply to my take on Cathedrals.
CATHEDRALS
Normal Rules: Halves cost of Temple or Academy in same city; halves Consumption increase penalty for promotion edicts; 3 minor items, 2 medium items; Loyalty +4; Unrest –4; limit one per city.
A cathedral can only be built if the kingdom's alignment is the same as the deity's alignment. An LG Kingdom, for example, could only build Cathedrals dedicated to Erastil, Iomedae, or Torag.
All cathedrals keep the normal rules except for one change. The +4 Loyalty it provides is reduced to +2, with the Cathedral also providing a special bonus as shown below.
Erastil (LG): Farmland can now be established for half cost (1 BP for a grassland hex, 2 BP for a hill hex).
Iomedae (LG): You may designate any one Regular army created by this city "Legion of the Inheritor". The Legion requires 1 less Consumption and gains +1 OM.
Torag (LG): The Defense Modifier of this city increases by 4.
Sarenrae (NG): Sarenrae's healing of the sick and blessing of the crops reduces Consumption by 3 BP.
Shelyn (NG): A single Theater in this city can be upgraded to an Opera House of the Rose, increasing the Economy and Stability it provides by 1.
Desna (CG): Roads can be established for half cost (min. 1 BP).
Cayden Cailean (CG): A single Tavern in the city can be designated as the Lucky Drunk, holy to Cayden Cailean, increasing the Economy and Loyalty it provides by 1.
Abadar (LN): The cathedral of Abadar doubles as a Bank, increasing Economy by 1 and the city's base value by +1,000.
Irori (LN): A free Monastary to the Master of Masters can be established in any controlled Mountain hex, increasing the kingdom's Stability and Loyalty by 1. If the Kingdom does not control a mountain hex at time of this Cathedral's establishment, it may 'save' this until it does.
Gozreh (N): Preparing a Forest hex for settling only requires 2 BP and takes 1 month to prepare (same as Hills). In addition, cities settled in Forest hexes may be treated as a free farm, reducing Consumption by 2 BP.
Pharasma (N): A single Graveyard in this city can be upgraded to a Boneyard, increasing the Economy and Loyalty it provides by 1.
Nethys (N): A single Caster's Tower in this city can be upgraded to the All Seeing Eye, increasing the amount of items it provides by 1 for each category (total 4 minor items, 3 medium items, 1 major item).
Gorum (CN): Any one Regular army created by this city may be designated as the "Iron Warriors". These troops receive the Improved Armor upgrade for free and begin with the Defensive Wall Tactic (this does not count against the max tactics it may learn).
Calistria (CN): A single Brothel in the city can be upgraded to the "Unquenchable Flames of Lust" brothel/temple, increasing the Economy and Loyalty it provides by 1.
Asmodeus (LE): The Loyalty penalty for all Taxes (except none) is reduced by 2 (Light becomes +1, Normal +0, Heavy -2, Overwhelming -6).
Zon-Kuthon (LE): Fear inspired from a city in the shadow of the Midnight Lord increases Loyalty by 1 and the Defense Modifier by 2.
Hey, nice work Karui!
I'm doing something similar for my game, though I'm constraining my choices to the gods that show up in Brevoy or the River Kingdoms. But you are far ahead of me in the "writing it up" department. :-)
Speaking of River Kingdoms gods, I'd recommend you at least include "Hanspur", and possibly even Gyronna as an exception to your "no CE" rule, given how important she is to the AP.
I'm not sure why creating temples/cathedrals to evil gods reduces unrest. For reference: a Brothel increases unrest in the base rules. And hiring a bunch of priests of Zon-Kuthon has got to be worse than that.
Personally, I'm having my cathedrals interact with my Event phase, rather than providing static bonuses (as I think it's too hard to do it for all the gods, hence me restricting myself to the eight in the AP).
Looking over your Cathedral bonuses, some are clearly better than others:
Erastil & Desna give huge bonuses (as they save you tons of BP over the long-term), whereas most of the gods give you a flavorful way to say "+1 to two stats" which is worth about 6 BP.
Also: if the warriors of Iomedae or Gorum die: can you replace them?
And the bonus from Nethys, in game terms, is simply the best: though that's due to an underlying issue in how magic items work in the game.
Also, your example of "two steps" alignment with Calistria is incorrect. It looks like you meant "one step" (and then forgot CG).
- my 2 cents
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I did mean one step, not two, and did forget to include Chaotic Good. Oops!
I might toss Hanspur in, but Gyronna I am not sure about. It's not Shrines to those Gods I am against (there is no alignment restriction with those in my rules), but full fledged Temples and Cathedrals, where clerics of those gods would be stationed on a daily basis (in ancient Greece, the people didn't have to worry about a Priest of Hades channeling his power in the middle of town). For the most part, it seems like the CE/NE gods operate in cults without temples in the middle of town, thematically. Only the more 'structured' evil deities I've actually read about having organized temples.
As for reducing unrest with a temple/cathedral to an evil god, the only two I have are the most Lawful ones, and the Kingdom itself would need to be LE to build them. Since they bring with them a lot of order, despite the Evil bit, I figure they can reduce unrest just as well as other cathedrals. It also means I don't have to change too many things.
As for the Cathedral bonuses:
Erastil and Desna definitely save more over the long-term, yes. It might be too much for what is really an exchange of +2 to Loyalty. Any ideas for what would be better to replace them?
Good question on the special armies. I might say that it takes a while to replace them as new priests are trained to accompany them, but I also think I'd be ok if they were a 'one time only' army. They definitely seem more powerful then a simple +2 bonus to Loyalty, and I'd be ok with them being lost if they were to die. It gives the players all the more reason to make sure they are protected and upgraded.
I have read a lot of the threads on how magic items work, and am aware that this makes the Eye Tower pretty awesome. From what I understand though, you can only sell back one item per district. This would mean that if there was another building producing major items in the district, then the Eye doesn't really change much. If it's the first Major item producer, then it does add a lot... I might just increase its Minor/Medium items, dunno if that is enough though.