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I believe that there is one exception to the proficiency rule, Elven Chain which actually is light armor even though it is chainmail.James Jacob's explained that one awhile ago - Elven Chain isn't the same as mithril chainmail, they are two different items. A particularly rules focused GM (especially in society play) could easily say that you can't enchant the armor any further than it already is since it's named armor. I could find the thread where James talked about this, but I'm feeling particularly lazy today.
OK, the only reference to enhancing a named item that seems on point was in a thread named "Elven Chain & Other Questions", not specifically a society ruling. It gives the impression that you can indeed enhance a named item.
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Here is some of the text from the Core book on what Mithral does to armors...Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.I think its fairly clear.
It's an issue of proficiency, but beyond that it's medium armor for the limitation on ranger combat style.
-James
Hi James i can understand your point based on what RAW states about mithral armors. I am nit-picking which is one of my flaws of several. I am just going one step further with mithral armors, the mithral is lighter as far as load bearing movement and armor check penalties due to the weight. However; Heavy armor such as Half-plate, Full plate, Banded mail, Splint mail etc...are armors that are very restrictive in the upper body, torso, and hip/leg area. These types of armors are heavy due to the extra padding required underneath these armors to prevent chafing in pinch point areas, also the material that they are made out of adds extra weight. Now here is my point of armors made of mithral, mithral is as hard as steel, or iron with half of the weight encumberance, the design of the armors never change. Most of these types of armors cause pinch points, such as the shoulder areas, the hips/groin areas in the case of Half-plate armor, and Full plate armor. The other heavy armors have restrictions in the shoulder areas, either by design or weight or both, in which case Mithral reduces the weight of the armor making it easier to bear the load, the armors still have restriction areas as afore mentioned.
I do appologize for making "a mountain out of a mole hill" so to speak, in regards in interpreting the description of the effects of mithral to metallic armors.
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Remember that mithral armor is also considered to be less restrictive than normal armor of its type.
Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
That, to me, shows that your "more restrictive" argument doesn't hold water. It makes the former heavy armors allow Dex bonuses equivalent to normal medium armors, +2 to +3, the same as 3 out of 4 medium armors. It also makes their ACPs the same or lower than the normal medium armors with the same Dex maximum, as well.
So, other than the heavy proficiency requirement, which will burn a feat slot for ranger or barbarian, they shouldn't have any other trouble, besides the cost, with mithral full plate.
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Remember that mithral armor is also considered to be less restrictive than normal armor of its type.
Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).That, to me, shows that your "more restrictive" argument doesn't hold water. It makes the former heavy armors allow Dex bonuses equivalent to normal medium armors, +2 to +3, the same as 3 out of 4 medium armors. It also makes their ACPs the same or lower than the normal medium armors with the same Dex maximum, as well.
So, other than the heavy proficiency requirement, which will burn a feat slot for ranger or barbarian, they shouldn't have any other trouble, besides the cost, with mithral full plate.
I can clearly see, that reason, and historical knowledge is not one of your strong points. Here is a link of a representation of typical medieval Full plate (armor), hopefully this will help you come to understand some of my finer points regarding the design of different types of armors, and how mithral doesn't change the flexibility of the more heavier armors such as Full plate and Half plate armor. However, knowing how gamers, who are Min./Maxers want every thing to go in thier favor, i will end my argument on armors made from mithral. I wish you all the utmost success in your future gaming endeavors.
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I can clearly see, that reason, and historical knowledge is not one of your strong points. However, knowing how gamers, who are Min./Maxers and want every thing to go in thier favor, i will end my argument on armors made from mithral. I wish you all the utmost success in your future gaming endeavors.
I would love to see your historical resource for mithral and its effect on armor.
My given answer was purely in game-terms, and, in game-terms, making heavy armor out of mithral makes it lighter (50% weight reduction), more maneuverable (+2 Dex maximum), less restrictive (-10% on the Arcane Spell Failure), and less hindering (-3 to Armor Check Penalty); all of which adds up to armor which should not interfere with abilities that require lighter, less hindering armor, like Ranger and Barbarian class abilities.
If the game really wanted historical accuracy, it would contain rules for whether your chain mail was budded or riveted, the number of links, and the size of the link, and the gauge of the wire used. The game doesn't go into such detail, but the details it does support, like the effects of using mithral instead of common metals, supports the conclusions I have reached.
From the Pathfinder RPG Reference Document:
Medium armor
Hide 15 gp +4 +4 –3 20% 20 ft. 15 ft. 25 lbs.
Scale mail 50 gp +5 +3 –4 25% 20 ft. 15 ft. 30 lbs.
Chainmail 150 gp +6 +2 –5 30% 20 ft. 15 ft. 40 lbs.
Breastplate 200 gp +6 +3 –4 25% 20 ft. 15 ft. 30 lbs.
Using the mithral modifiers shown in the same document, on the heavy armor from the same table as the medium armors above:
Mithral heavy armor
Splint mail 9200 gp +7 +2 –4 30% 20 ft.2 15 ft.2 22.5 lbs.
Banded mail 9250 gp +7 +3 –3 25% 20 ft.2 15 ft.2 17.5 lbs.
Half-plate 9600 gp +8 +2 –4 30% 20 ft.2 15 ft.2 25 lbs.
Full plate 10,500 gp +9 +3 –3 25% 20 ft.2 15 ft.2 25 lbs.
Overall, weight is lighter or comparable with medium (17.5-25 compared to 25-40); Dex maximum falls into the same range (2-3 compared to 2-4), armor check penalty is in the same range (3-4 compared to 3-5), arcane spell failure chance falls into the same range (25-30 compared to 20-30).
So, by every game-applicable measure, mithral heavy armor would be as good as, if not better than, normal medium armor.
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I can clearly see, that reason, and historical knowledge is not one of your strong points. Here is a link of a representation of typical medieval Full plate armor. However, knowing how gamers, who are Min./Maxers want every thing to go in thier favor, i will end my argument on armors made from mithral. I wish you all the utmost success in your future gaming endeavors.
While this kind of snarky response may fly on the general section of the boards, I'd ask that you refrain from taking the holier than thou "I know history, so I'm right" attitude here on the Pathfinder Society section of the forums.
Firstly, this is often a spot for new players to learn about the game, seeing this kind of post doesn't do anything to enamor them to the community.
Secondly, Pathfinder Society is by its definition run by the game-rules as-written. While you may find it interesting to postulate how the armor rules should work using real-world examples, they plainly don't have any real purpose on this section of the forum. As-written, mithril works exactly as Callarek has indicated.
For a switch-hitter ranger, Mihtril Full plate is a very solid choice (assuming you're willing to take a level of fighter or burn a feat for heavy armor proficiency). While expensive, it's not nearly as bad as one might think, and you're looking at the good possibility of owning a magically-enhanced suit by 5th level. You should have the required gold by that point, and should have suitable PA to enchant it up to +2 shortly thereafter.
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Unfortunately mithral is a fantastical representation of modern day Titanium, obviously crafters during the medieval era did not have this wonderfull metallic alloy. The best metallic ore during that era was Spanish iron ore, which was refined greatly into very sturdy and somewhat flexible iron. I do agree with you that had the R&D personnel wanted to include more detailed facts about various armors they would have done so.
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While this kind of snarky response may fly on the general section of the boards, I'd ask that you refrain from taking the holier than thou "I know history, so I'm right" attitude here on the Pathfinder Society section of the forums.Firstly, this is often a spot for new players to learn about the game, seeing this kind of post doesn't do anything to enamor them to the community.
Secondly, Pathfinder Society is by its definition run by the game-rules as-written. While you may find it interesting to postulate how the armor rules should work using real-world examples, they plainly don't have any real purpose on this section of the forum. As-written, mithril works exactly as Callarek has indicated.
For a switch-hitter ranger, Mihtril Full plate is a very solid choice (assuming you're willing to take a level of fighter or burn a feat for heavy armor proficiency). While expensive, it's not nearly as bad as one might think, and you're looking at the good possibility of owning a magically-enhanced suit by 5th level. You should have the required gold by that point, and should have suitable PA to enchant it up to +2 shortly thereafter.
Just so you know and i am not trying to be snarky, i am a metalurgic fabrication specialist with my employer in RL. I am a huge history buff, i was just trying to show a more refined look at heavy armors and how restrictive they can be. I will say this again i am finished arguing my point due to the fact that...and you are correct this is about introducing new players to Pathfinder and i encourage that. I do appologize if i sounded snarky, it was not my intent.