A player of mine is planning to play a Dragonfire Adept in Kingmaker and I was wondering if there are any decent conversions floating about?
If not, any suggestions? I was thinking of lowering hp's to d6 (to match poor BAB) but giving bonus feats to compensate.
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As far as I've seen no. But I would HIGHLY advise against lowering the HD, unless you plan on giving them some additional spellcasting capabilities. The class was weak in 3.5 and in pathfinder I can't see it being much more than dead weight... maybe give the player a free conversion to Dragonborn at level 4 to make up for it?
A player of mine is planning to play a Dragonfire Adept in Kingmaker and I was wondering if there are any decent conversions floating about?
If not, any suggestions? I was thinking of lowering hp's to d6 (to match poor BAB) but giving bonus feats to compensate.
I simply updated the skills and raised the BAB to match the HD.
It works just fine that way.
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll consider adjusting the damage output of his breath weapon, grant some bonus "draconic" feats, and possibly tweak the level of invocations known.
I am currently DMing a Pathfinder game that has a DFA in it. I have nerfed some of the special breath weapons (Paralyzing and Sleep (I think)), but otherwise left the class alone. The PC is played as a well armored hit point machine that has a ton of knowledges and contributes damage via his breath weapon. This 1 PC is a huge thorn in my side, it seems that the only thing that might truely threaten his existance is a Demon Lord or high ranking Devil, anything else is barely bothersome. Granted he is 19th level, but he basically held his own one-on-one vs a Tarn Linnorm (CR 20). It could be a problem with me, but everyone else in the party seems to feel fairly challenged by the BBEGs, but not him. He did die once at mid levels to a assasination, but other than that he has been virtually untouchable.
Approx stats: AC 47-50 HP 300 Knowledge and Perception skills +25-30
I will not allow another DFA in my campaigns and suggest that you look close before you ok the class for your player. In the future I'm sticking to the Pathfinder materials. Best of luck with your campaign!
That's unfortunate. Not because I like DFA (I never even heard of this class), but because it creates further reasons to put up the ole' 3.5's and be only PF.
The player in my campaign made a very focused, well designed character, he is very good at what he does. That being said, combat/damage wise, he really doesn't do much. He has a number of breath weapons that do ~8d6/round, not going to kill the tough stuff with that, but it adds up and deals with the riff-raff just fine. Again it could be me, I'm not as familiar with the DFA as I am with the core classes. I didn't want to teak the class to much and have him feel like his character was completely nerfed, but I think I could have gone a bit further. I actually like the idea of dropping the HD to D6. Just my 2cp, we plan on adventuring for another 10-12 lvls so I'm pretty much stuck. I'm sure these problems can be handled by a better DM. (I'm more of a story guy)
The last DFA I made focused on scaring the crap out of people.
Maxed Intimidate, took the invocation Frightful Presence, and the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon.
He was rather good at the debuffing of the enemies.
I read all kinds of varying things about DFAs, from them being one of the most powerful classes to one of the weakest. Because I'm only allowing each player 3 sources beyond core books I think the powergaming potential of the DFA might be limited.
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That wild swing in opinions is a great sign that the class is ideally balanced. The players who don't know how to play will make it look bad, and the optimizers will take things a step too far. Any class that is not absolutely terrible in 3.5 can be made broken with enough splat-books. Personally, I think by themselves they are a little underpowered compared to the general pathfinder power curve for classes but that is only because they get no armor proficiencies and only simple weapons. The extra feats pathfinder doles out however can help fix this.
I'm working (off and on) on a more concrete conversion of the Dragonfire Adept. If I ever manage to get it finished (LOL), I'll post it. Sadly, my time over the next week isn't going to be much due to health issus.
There's a pretty decent review of the class (and potential conversion to Pathfinder) in the Private Sanctuary podcast, episode 126.
Personally, I think by themselves they are a little underpowered compared to the general pathfinder power curve for classes but that is only because they get no armor proficiencies and only simple weapons.
However, they can still *wear* armor, and a single fighter or paladin dip would let them wear full plate while using all their powers.
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However, they can still *wear* armor, and a single fighter or paladin dip would let them wear full plate while using all their powers.
While this is true, that they can take the feats (Or as you mention dip into fighter) they still suffer from arcane spell failure just like similar casters and that is a pretty hefty tax just for some survivability. This was somewhat avoidable by using the 24 hour type duration invocations in the morning right after you get up and have some breakfast, but that doesn't help the utility and combat oriented ones.
The DFA I have been ranting about has only used the Dragon Magic book, he did take a 1 level dip into Duskblade---I think.
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Here's my Pathfinder conversion of the Dragonfire Adept for a player whose chosen it for his character. Any opinions? Does he suck, or is he too powerful? Keep in mind my players will only have access to core plus 3 splat books to support their character's development.
DRAGONFIRE ADEPT
Whether they are bold champions defending the weak and downtrodden, or merciless raiders seeking might and riches, dragonfire adepts are imposing figures who command the magic of dragonkind. Able to call upon a dragon’s fiery breath and augment themselves with spell-like abilities, dragonfire adepts have access to powers normally beyond the reach of humanoids.
Dragonfire adepts have no arcane or divine magic, nor are they masters of martial prowess. Instead, they draw upon a direct link with the nature of draconic existence, infusing their soul with the raw magic of dragons. The most obvious incarnation of this link is their breath weapon, but as they gain experience, dragonfire adepts learn powerful invocations that allow them to access different draconic abilities. Cunning, hearty and learned, dragonfire adepts can be war leaders or sages with ease.
Role: A dragonfire adept is a student devoted to understanding the ways of dragons and emulating them. Evil dragonfire adepts are cruel tyrants who impose their will on others, seeking to control land, build strongholds, and amass vast treasures. Good dragonfire adepts are champions of justice and freedom, using their powers to aid others. Like a sorcerer, a dragonfire adept gains new powers automatically as he rises in level, tapping ever deeper into the draconic magic in his soul. Unlike a sorcerer, however, a dragonfire adept manifests this magic not in the form of spells, but as invocations that emulate draconic powers.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.
Starting Gold: 2d4 x 10 (50 gp).
Starting Age: As paladin.
Class Skills
The dragonfire adept’s class skills are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifiers
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the dragonfire adept.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dragonfire adepts are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Like arcane spellcasters, a dragonfire adept wearing armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure (all invocations have somatic components).
Draconic Invocations (Sp): A dragonfire adept has a repertoire of attacks, defenses, and other abilities known as draconic invocations, which allow him to focus the draconic energy that suffuses his soul. A dragonfire adept can use any invocations he knows at will.
A dragonfire adept’s invocations are spell-like abilities, and using one is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To avoid provoking such attacks, a dragonfire adept can use an invocation defensively by making a successful Concentration check (Core rules page 206). An invocation can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. His invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation’s description specifically states otherwise. A dragonfire adept’s caster level with his invocations is equal to his class level. He can dismiss any invocation as a standard action, just as a sorcerer can dismiss a spell.
If an invocation allows a saving throw, its DC is 10 + the equivalent spell level + the dragonfire adept’s Cha modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not spells, a dragonfire adept cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat or from draconic feats that let him convert or spend an arcane slot to produce some other effect. He can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat (Bestiary page 314), as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities.
The four grades of draconic invocations, in order of relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and dark. A 1st-level dragonfire adept begins with knowledge of one least invocation, gaining access to more invocations and higher grades as he attains levels. At any level when a dragonfire adept learns a new invocation, he can replace one he already knows with another invocation with the same or lower grade.
Unlike other spell-like abilities, draconic invocations are subject to arcane spell failure.
Finally, dragonfire adepts benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have a level advancement benefit of “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class”. Taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any other benefits of that level increase, but he gains an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his breath weapon. Levels with these prestige classes effectively stack with the dragonfire adept’s level to determine his breath weapon damage and save DC. He also gains new invocations at each prestige class level as though he had risen a level in the dragonfire adept class.
A dragonfire adept cannot qualify for prestige classes (or other game options) with spellcasting level requirements; however, he can qualify for prestige classes that have a caster level requirement.
Breath Weapon (Su): At 1st level, a dragonfire adept chooses a tier one breath weapon (cold, electricity, or fire) from Table 1-2, that he can use at will as a standard action. His breath weapon takes the form of a 15 foot cone or a 30 foot line based on the energy type chosen, some offer a choice between the two. This breath weapon deals 1d6 points of damage based on the specific energy type chosen, a successful Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ caster level + Con modifier) halves the damage. As a dragonfire adept gains levels, his breath weapon’s damage increases as shown on Table 1-1.
Dragonfire adepts are immune to the effects of their own breath weapons (but not to other breath weapons that produce similar effects, even those of other dragonfire adepts).
At 9th level, a dragonfire adept’s cone-shaped breath weapon’s range doubles to 30 feet and his line-shaped range doubles to 60 feet.
Dragontouched (Su): You gain the dragonblood subtype. With draconic essence, a dragonfire adept gains a +1 bonus on saves related to paralysis and sleep effects, +1 bonus to Perception checks and counts as both his original race and dragon for any effect related to race. In addition, he may qualify for any draconic feats as if he were a sorcerer of equal level.
Bonus Feats: At 4th, 8th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level, a dragonfire adept gains a bonus draconic feat chosen from Table 1-3. He must still meet all the prerequisites for the feat, including caster level minimums.
Breath Effect: At 2nd, 5th, 10th, 12th, 15th, and 20th level, you can select one of the breath effects from Table 1-2: Breath Effects, for which you meet the minimum level requirements. These breath effects can alter your breath weapon’s damage type or area, or apply a condition to targets in place of damage. Each time you use your breath weapon, you can chose to apply any one breath effect that you know. Some effects can only be applied to a cone-shaped breath weapon and others only to a line-shaped breath weapon. You can’t apply more than one breath effect to a breath weapon unless the effect specifically states otherwise. Also, you can’t apply the same breath effect to your breath weapon in two consecutive rounds (though you still can use your normal breath weapon every round).
Dragonscales (Ex): At 2nd level, a dragonfire adept’s skin becomes thick and gives the faint appearance of scales, granting him a +2 natural armor bonus. As the scales become denser, the natural armor bonus increases to +3 at 7th, to +4 at 12th, and to +5 at 17th.
Draconic Tongue: At 3rd level, the dragonfire adept can speak, read and write the language of Draconic.
Dragonkin (Ex): At 4th level, a dragonfire adept gains a +4 competence bonus on Diplomacy checks made to influence the attitudes of dragons or creatures with the dragon type. A dragonfire adept gains a competence bonus to his saving throw equal to his Cha modifier versus fear spells and effects including a dragon’s frightful presence ability.
Draconic Resistance: At 5th level, dragonfire adepts gain resist 5 versus acid, cold, electricity, or fire. This bonus increases to resist 10 at 10th, and resist 15 at 15th level. He need not choose the same energy type at those levels and can opt to divide the resistance between all four energy types (e.g. resist fire 5, resist cold 5, resist acid 5).
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 6th level, he gains damage reduction 3/magic, improving to 5/magic at 14th, and 10/magic at 20th.
Draconic Immunities (Ex): At 18th level, a dragonfire adept gains immunity to paralysis and sleep.
Dragonbound (Ex): By 20th level, the dragonfire adept has embraced his draconic link and is a master of drawing power from it. He is immune to fear and the frightful presence of dragons and one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, or fire) of his choosing.
Table 1-1: DRAGONFIRE ADEPT
Level BAB F/R/W Special
1 +0 2/0/2 Breath weapon 1d6, dragontouched, least invocations
2 +1 3/0/3 Breath effect tier 1, dragonscales +2
3 +1 3/1/3 Breath weapon 2d6, draconic tongue
4 +2 4/1/4 Bonus feat, dragonkin
5 +2 4/1/4 Breath weapon 3d6, breath effect tier 2, draconic resistance 5
6 +3 5/2/5 Damage reduction 3/magic, lesser invocations
7 +3 5/2/5 Breath weapon 4d6, dragonscales +3
8 +4 6/2/2 Bonus feat
9 +4 6/3/6 Breath weapon 5d6, range doubles
10 +5 7/3/7 Breath effect tier 3, draconic resistance 10
11 +5 7/3/7 Breath weapon 6d6, greater invocations
12 +6/+1 8/4/8 Breath effect, dragonscales +4
13 +6/+1 8/4/8 Breath weapon 7d6, bonus feat
14 +7/+2 9/4/9 Damage reduction 5/magic
15 +7/+2 9/5/9 Breath weapon 8d6, breath effect tier 4, draconic resistance 15
16 +8/+3 10/5/10 Dark invocations, bonus feat
17 +8/+3 10/5/10 Breath weapon 9d6, dragonscales +5
18 +9/+4 11/6/11 Draconic immunities
19 +9/+4 11/6/11 Breath weapon 10d6, bonus feat
20 +10/+5 12/6/12 Dragonbound, damage reduction 10/magic, breath effect tier 4
Known Draconic Invocations:
1st - 1
2nd - 1
3rd - 2
4th - 2
5th - 3
6th - 3
7th - 3
8th - 4
9th - 4
10th - 5
11th - 5
12th - 6
13th - 6
14th - 6
15th - 7
16th - 7
17th - 8
18th - 8
19th - 9
20th - 9
Table 1-2: Dragonfire Adept Breath Effects
Tier (Minimum Level) Breath Effect
1/ (1st) Fire Breath: Cone or line-shaped BW deals fire damage
Frost Breath: Cold-shaped BW deals cold damage
Lightning Breath: Line-shaped BW deals electrical damage
Sickening breath: Cone-shaped BW sickens creatures
2/ (5th) Acid Breath: BW deals acid damage
Shaped Breath: Create safe zones within your BW's area
Slow Breath: Cone-shaped BW slows creatures
Weakening Breath: Cone-shaped BW imposes -6 penalty to Strength
3/ (10th) Cloud Breath: BW can take form of 20-foot radius cloud
Enduring Breath: BW deals damage over 2 rounds
Sleep Breath: Cone-shaped BW puts weak creatures to sleep
Thunder Breath: Cone-shaped BW deals sonic damage
4/ (15th) Discorporating Breath: Line-shaped BW deals double damage, disintegrates creatures
Force Breath: Line-shaped BW deals force damage
Paralyzing Breath: Cone-shaped BW paralyzes creatures for 1 round
Fivefold Breath: Breathe five different BWs simultaneously
Table 1-3: Dragonfire Adept Bonus Feats
Feats Benefits
Ability Focus- One of your special attacks is particularly difficult to resist. (Bestiary)
Combat Casting- You are adept at spellcasting when threatened or distracted. (Core)
Draconic Aura- You tap into the raw power of dragons to create a variety of potent auras around you. (DM)
Draconic Heritage- You have a greater connection to your draconic heritage than others of your kind. (DM)
Draconic Knowledge- Your draconic blood lets you access ancient draconic knowledge. (DM)
Draconic Resistance- Your bloodline hardens your body against effects related to the nature of your progenitor. (RD)
Draconic Senses- Your draconic blood grants you great sensory powers. (DM)
Draconic Skin- Your skin takes on a sheen, luster, and hardness related to your draconic ancestor. (RD)
Draconic Toughness- Your draconic nature reinforces your body as you embrace your heritage. (RD)
Empower Spell-Like Ability- One of this creature’s spell-like abilities is particularly potent and powerful. (Bestiary)
Entangling Exhalation- You can use your breath weapon to create an entangling mesh of energy. (RD)
Exhaled Barrier- You can use your breath weapon to create a wall of energy. (RD)
Exhaled Immunity- You can use your breath weapon to grant a willing creature immunity to energy. (RD)
Extra Least Invocation*- You gain an additional draconic least invocation. (New)
Frightful Presence- Like a dragon, your mere presence can terrify those around you. (DRC)
Improved Natural Armor- Your hide is tougher than most. (Bestiary)
Persuasive- You are skilled at swaying attitudes and intimidating others into your way of thinking. (Core)
Quicken Spell-Like Ability- You can use one of your spell-like abilities with next to no effort. (Bestiary)
Spell Penetration- Your spells/invocations break through spell resistance more easily than most. (Core)
Toughness- You have enhanced physical stamina. (Core)
Words of Draconic Power- You tap into the great tradition of draconic magic to enhance the words of your allies. (DM)
DM = Dragon Magic
DR = Dragons Revisited
DRC = Draconomicon
RD = Races of the Dragon
*Extra Least Invocation (General)
You gain an additional draconic least invocation.
Prerequisite: Dragonfire Adept 1st level, Cha 13.
Benefit: You gain an additional Least Invocation. You may take this feat multiple times, each time gaining a new Least Invocation.
Dragontongue seems odd at 3rd level, should be a first level ability "at first level the dragonfire adept gains draconic as a bonus language".
DFA really isn't that almighty of a class, and if one is wrecking your campaign then either your campaign is really shoddily built or they're pulling fast ones on you.
They are at heart a class that does mediocre at best damage with a few utility invocations that don't really change the world to that great of a degree. They're at their best when they're controlling the battlefield, but they can't do it nearly as well as any full caster.
That isn't to say they aren't fun - they can be voraciously fun! But the idea that they're too powerful is a little hard to swallow.
Dragontongue seems odd at 3rd level, should be a first level ability "at first level the dragonfire adept gains draconic as a bonus language".
Fair enough, that does make sense. I was trying to give a minor ability at 3rd level as I wanted to avoid dead levels. Any suggestions of a 3rd level themed-based ability?
Keep the name dragon tongue and give a small bonus to diplomacy/bluff/intimidate +1 at 3 +2 at 8 +3 at 13 +4 at 18. If that's a bit much, consider it a bonus with only dragons/dragonkin
edit: didn't see "dragonkin" ability at 4th there. How about a bonus to reflex saves versus breath weapons?
Keep the name dragon tongue and give a small bonus to diplomacy/bluff/intimidate +1 at 3 +2 at 8 +3 at 13 +4 at 18. If that's a bit much, consider it a bonus with only dragons/dragonkin
edit: didn't see "dragonkin" ability at 4th there. How about a bonus to reflex saves versus breath weapons?
I likey the Reflex save bonus versus breath weapon
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I know this seems a bit old hat but a good way to fill in an empty level is to give them a bonus feat. Plus I don't think 2 more bonus feats over 20 levels will break anything. If anything it would allow them to come in more varieties.
If you put one here (level 3 in place of Dragon Tongue) and one at level 18 it would fit the math of "At third level and every 5 levels thereafter the Dragonfire Adept gains a bonus feat selected from table 1-3."
That is just my 2 cp though.
So instead of 4/8/13/16/19 which is a non - mathematical progression, switch to 3/8/13/18?
Well heck, might as well give them something fun at 16th then, how about the ability to cast Form of the Dragon III once per day at 16th as a spell like ability?