Witchwar, 17th level freelancers?

[Coridan]

So I got Witchwar Legacy and started to flip through it excited to see a high level modules. Disappointment hit early though at the 'adventure hooks' section, and I haven't looked much past it (so if there's good stuff further in that overrides this please let me know!)

The idea that 17th level characters are 'freelancers' or going to be hired to do essentially a 'fetch the macguffin' quest bugged the hell out of me. I always envision someone post 15th level to a be a big shot and the closer you get to 20 the bigger the celebrity your character should be at that point. The kind of stuff you have to take on to get the XP to get that high pretty much guarantees it.

The APs do this pretty well where your fame rises, in fact the progression goes pretty fast as far as fame (especially in CotCT or CoT). This module sounds like it's just going to be a 5th level adventure scaled up in CR, though I'll admit I haven't read the whole thing.

[wraithstrike]

Coridan wrote:

So I got Witchwar Legacy and started to flip through it excited to see a high level modules. Disappointment hit early though at the 'adventure hooks' section, and I haven't looked much past it (so if there's good stuff further in that overrides this please let me know!)

The idea that 17th level characters are 'freelancers' or going to be hired to do essentially a 'fetch the macguffin' quest bugged the hell out of me. I always envision someone post 15th level to a be a big shot and the closer you get to 20 the bigger the celebrity your character should be at that point. The kind of stuff you have to take on to get the XP to get that high pretty much guarantees it.

The APs do this pretty well where your fame rises, in fact the progression goes pretty fast as far as fame (especially in CotCT or CoT). This module sounds like it's just going to be a 5th level adventure scaled up in CR, though I'll admit I haven't read the whole thing.

Maybe they don't want to be bothered with anyone, so they stay out of the lime light and only answer to people who can offer enough gold for them to do a job. I can see that being the case if they were neutral. Now if they are good aligned a DM could always just have them coming off of some other adventure trying to get some R&R when the request comes for the Witch War Legacy. I would not down an entire adventure just because I don't like the author's hook.

If you do read it, and it sounds interesting let me know. :)

[cyrusduane]

My players are bringing out their old Runelords Characters for this, and the hook will be that their Pathfinder Captain has asked them to look into a lost contact and this situation.

[Dragonchess Player]

Considering that writing plot hooks for high level characters without knowing anything about their backgrounds and motivations is always tricky, a "MacGuffin quest" (rescue the princess, find the unique thingamajig, etc.) is probably best for a published adventure not tied to an AP. If the objection is that they are being hired by someone else, then change it so that they are independently after the MacGuffin (for whatever reason) and have them interact with the other factions and NPCs as allies/rivals (based on their actions/decisions).

It's the GM's responsibility to tweak a published adventure to a particular group, not a publisher's responsibility to make an adventure perfectly suit every possible group...

[GeraintElberion]

You are given three plot hooks:
Recruited by super-powerful figure A
Recruited by powerful figure B
Learn about mcguffin and decide to get it first.

The adventure assumes the last one and the module specifically mentions that the hooks are left vague to allow the GM to tie-in well-developed player-characters in his/her own fashion.

What makes it exciting for some level 17 PCs will be: "Hey, who wants an artifact?"

[Greg A. Vaughan]

Considering there is about 500-1,000 words of space to develop hooks for a PF Module and we're talking about 17th-level PCs potentially well established from their own campaign over the last 17 levels and keeping the hooks generic enough that anyone wiht any party can basically plug and play, well there's really not a whole lot that can be done in those parameters. As written, they basically allow the adventure to be tackled from every motivation related to the major goal possible, but yeah it's tough to get specific in a short stand-alone. It's alos intended that you can make the hooks whatever you want them to be to fit your campaign (as previously mentioned).

If they're not your cup of tea, I'm sorry to hear that, but I would hope that someone wouldn't pass on a 17th-level adventure simply because of the hooks. However, that's certainly your choice, and I won't second guess you on it. Just wanted to give some explanation.

Greg

[Katerek]

If you are running a campaign where you have PCs of sufficient level to use a Module intended for 17th level - then coming up with your own hooks ought to be easy for you. You have, after all, managed to run a campaign that got them this far.

If you are doing it as a one off, then use the pre-gens in the back and who cares about hooks. Its not like it matters at that point.

I would have been just as happy if there weren't any hooks. As far as I am concerned, thats 500 to 1000 words that could have been used to add more awesome.

[Ernest Mueller]

Yeah really, if you are running a 17th level module then one of two things are true:

1. You are running it as a one-shot, in which case who cares how flimsy the hook is, you're there to play that adventure and everyone knows it.

2. You have a campaign that's run 17 levels and any hook provided will be stupid or inappropriate and you just sub in your own anyway.

I totally agree with not one more word being spent on it in the adventure.

[Sean K Reynolds]

All followup posters have basically said what I was going to say. :)