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I have a two-part question about this proposed event in Kingmaker vol_2
1_)
It mentions that the people wish to build a village and want a loan or something to get it started out in the Nalmarches.
Is it meant to be in a hex that isn't already necessarily annexed into the PCs' kingdom?
My players started their kingdom at the Stagg Lord's Fort - and would be a VERY long time before they could annex that forest hex into the kingdom - and this is proposed as an early event.
If it is meant to be "not part of the kingdom" yet, then what exactly do the NPCs need PCs support of? Since it's not technically their territory to grant to them. Or are they borrowing money / BP? or what?? I'm a little confused on this one.....
2_)
Do these two NPCs wind up being enemies of the PCs in a later book.
I think to make this encounter be more personal and meaning, I would substitute a couple of NPCs that have already been a part of the campaign for those two - but wouldn't want to use the two I have in mind if the stoy is that these two are secretly enemies of PCs (or expected to become so) It states that Tatzlford become important in later volumes of the AP; but I don't have the time to scour them all to get this answer found before Friday's game.
Thanks,
Robert
On a meta-game level, it is intended to be the furthest west city in the kingdom. At the beginning of book 4, your kingdom gets attacked by an army from the west. They include a map of Tatlzford to run this fight on. It makes it so that the map and everything works together easily.
It is also intended to not be part of your kingdom. That way it can grow fully independantly of the PC's control. Again, this is so that the map in book 4 is appropriate. If the PCs built different things, the map would be wrong.
So long as the city is independant, it doesn't cost you anything. Once you annex it, it costs BP. They're just asking for the PCs blessing to do this.
The way book 4 is written, the NPCs are not just friendly, but steadfastly loyal to the PCs. The only thing to keep in mind with changing out the prewritten NPCs is that the female is a somewhat high level Cleric of Erastil (by the time of book 4) and she is supposed to provide some healing after the invasion.
All of that being said, do whatever you want. If you were to build a different city even further west, or were to annex the city and build different buildings, or were to be ruled by different NPCs, etc, it's not a big deal. This is a sandbox, and the PCs are supposed to be in control. You just get a wasted map in book 4. It's fine for the army to attack some other city.
In other words, don't sweat it.
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On a meta-game level, it is intended to be the furthest west city in the kingdom. At the beginning of book 4, your kingdom gets attacked by an army from the west. They include a map of Tatlzford to run this fight on. It makes it so that the map and everything works together easily.
Thank you for all the info - this is quite helpful.
One thing I don't understand (still), is if it's meant to be an independant city and not part of the kingdom, why does it provide a benefit to the kingdom that the first building that is built there costs the PC's kingdom "half as much"?
Thanks again
Robert
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On a meta-game level, it is intended to be the furthest west city in the kingdom. At the beginning of book 4, your kingdom gets attacked by an army from the west. They include a map of Tatlzford to run this fight on. It makes it so that the map and everything works together easily.
Thank you for all the info - this is quite helpful.
One thing I don't understand (still), is if it's meant to be an independant city and not part of the kingdom, why does it provide a benefit to the kingdom that the first building that is built there costs the PC's kingdom "half as much"?
Thanks again
Robert
Its effectively a town built with the permission of the PC's, who are effectively the custodians of the Greenbelt. As local heroes, the mayor and his wife seek the PC's permission to build the town, and when the kingdom eventually expands to include Tatzlford they don't need to make an annexing roll as the inhabitants of Tatzlford and their leadership already consider themselves part of the kingdom.
The 1/2 cost on buildings is for when the town is brought into the kingdom- the mayor and his wife are extremely capable and they've only had a small town to manage- thus the foundations of the town are excellent and their help reduces the cost and time of the first building.
Hope this answers your questions. Alex
Ok, having just re-read the Tatzlford bits, I'll post what I've gleaned from them:
1) The event with the Rezbins in KM2 is there to seed the idea of Tatzlford, not give a free town. The writers, needing to establish the setting for the conflict leading into KM4, do this to "encourage" the PCs to establish the town by cutting costs on the first of the recommended buildings. Thus, if the young kingdom sets up the town, the attack later on takes on a much more personal tone, but the scenario as written will need a little modification for however the PCs have developed the settlement.
2) If the PCs DIDN'T take up the Rezbins request for help, and don't build that way, then at the start of KM4 the Rezbins again approach them, this time offering the fealty of a full-blown settlement and the hexes in-between. This sweet deal is then followed up by the proscribed event that kicks the adventure off proper.
3) It is also noted that the attack will proceed regardless of wether Tatzlford ever becomes a reality in your game. If there's no Tatzlford, it can easily be another westward city. Tatzlford in either offering is just an incentive to establish a setting for kicking off Part 4. As I recall (possibly being written somewheres on these very forums), the writers needed to name the town SOMETHING, so to give them something to wrap the battle around, the set piece of Tatzlford was set up. You can take it as given, or change it as needed to fit your game as it develops - the key to remember is that the attack is on the PCs Kingdom, and thus they are motivated to respond to the aggression and head west.
For a while I had two groups competing for territory in the same campaign, and Tatzlford became one of the contested territories, as the Rezbins had approached both for support. While one signed them on, the other ended up claiming them, along with the barony the first group managed to loose thanks to a collapse into anarchy. At this point (near the end of KM2), they're not much more than an Inn and a few houses, but they likely have a few years to grow into where they need to be as a proper backdrop for KM4. Not that they're the westernmost settlement anymore - that position has been taken by a certain former ruin of an elvish fortress, recently refurbished to guard the westernmost boarder.
As you can see, once I get there I'll likely already have to rework the battle a bit as it is.
Gotta love a sandbox.
So can I find more info on these two NPCs in book 4? Pictures of them etc?
I will want to fish this info out so as to not need a retcon when I get to that part.....
Robert
We get a pic of Loy Rezbin in the top right corner of the back page of KM4, next to the "Road to..." quest. I'm unsure which other npc you're asking about. If your looking for his wife or the High Priestess, I don't think either are ever depicted.
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We get a pic of Loy Rezbin in the top right corner of the back page of KM4, next to the "Road to..." quest. I'm unsure which other npc you're asking about. If your looking for his wife or the High Priestess, I don't think either are ever depicted.
The other NPC I spoke of was Latricia - Loy's wife - whom I believe someone mentioned her as being a cleric of Erastil.
Thank you for your input.
Robert
Creative Director
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Here's the deal with Tatzlford.
For the adventure, the author needed a small town for the bad guys to attack with their trolls and barbarians, but due to the nature of the campaign... there IS no pre-established small town in canon for the bad guys to attack. Because the region is being developed by the PCs, and just as we have no way of predicting what kind of characters any one group will play in an AP, we can't predict where and how (or even IF) a particular group will build cities in their kingdom. Some might have dozens of cities by the time this adventure begins. Others might have only one. Some might be ignoring the kingdom building element of the campaign entirely.
But still, the author needed a town for the bad guys to attack.
So we had to invent one. Tatzlford is the result. We foreshadow it's genesis in Pathfinder #32, but when the attack on the town occurs... you as the GM have to do some work. You can either run the attack as detailed, and this works really well if the PCs haven't been to Tatzleford yet but you HAVE let them know the town was built.
But frankly, the BEST way to handle this encounter is to replace Tatzleford with a town or village that the PCs established, and to replace the NPCs there with NPCs the PCs already know in the region. Customize it to fit your own particular game, in other words. With that method, you don't have to worry about retconing anything; you're the expert on your particular Kingmaker campaign, after all!
I think Paizo handled it in the best way possible - and it was a great way, to boot.
Pretty much every option was covered - if the PCs had their own settlement, voila - that can be used... and you get a free bonus map and town details to use elsewhere! If the PCs didn't, Paizo did the work and created one (with map and details!) for us to use - and even foreshadowed it in an earlier adventure (and the foreshadowing in an AP is really, really appreciated).
We pretty much got the best of all worlds.