Arcane Trickster redone?

[Bwang]

The Arcane Archer is getting mauled in another thread, so I'll drag the Arcane Trickster out for abuse. Other than Invisible Thief and much realaxed entry requirements, what do you think of the AT? What can be done to fix any problems you see.

My real question after all that is: How can I make this the Favored Class for a certain 'sub-race culture'? Think in terms of a culture that worships the Trickster aspect of Baccob. Their 'magical ninja' seek to gather arcane secrets from those who would 'hoard' such knowlege.

[PuddingSeven]

Bwang wrote:

The Arcane Archer is getting mauled in another thread, so I'll drag the Arcane Trickster out for abuse. Other than Invisible Thief and much realaxed entry requirements, what do you think of the AT? What can be done to fix any problems you see.

My real question after all that is: How can I make this the Favored Class for a certain 'sub-race culture'? Think in terms of a culture that worships the Trickster aspect of Baccob. Their 'magical ninja' seek to gather arcane secrets from those who would 'hoard' such knowlege.

The arcane trickster is a fun-as-heck class to role-play, and not so great if you'd rather roll-play.

Powergamers and optimization junkies don't like the AT. I think a weak BAB is the biggest criticism. Personally, I think this is overcome with a focus on ranged touch attacks, combined with an emphasis on sneak attacks. But that's just me.

[SlimGauge]

But I don't WANT to focus on ranged touch attacks. I want to tumble in and make melee touch attacks ! (translation: The AT is a mage who can do precision damage with his rays. What I want is a melee rogue who can do magic and make melee touch attacks)

To turn the AT in the the AT that I'd want, I'd up the BAB to 3/4, have AT levels count as rogue levels for feat/rogue talent qualification the way an Eldritch Knight's levels count as fighter levels for feat qualification. To compensate, I'd drop the casting to 4/5ths or 3/4.

[The Admiral Jose Monkamuck]

SlimGauge wrote:

But I don't WANT to focus on ranged touch attacks. I want to tumble in and make melee touch attacks ! (translation: The AT is a mage who can do precision damage with his rays. What I want is a melee rogue who can do magic and make melee touch attacks)

To turn the AT in the the AT that I'd want, I'd up the BAB to 3/4, have AT levels count as rogue levels for feat/rogue talent qualification the way an Eldritch Knight's levels count as fighter levels for feat qualification. To compensate, I'd drop the casting to 4/5ths or 3/4.

Honestly with as low as most touch ACs are I don't see why you would need a BAB boost in the slightest. The main thing you need are more really good melee touch spells.

Despite the whining of many I think the AT is an excellent class that needs no modifications at all.

[james maissen]

Bwang wrote:

The Arcane Archer is getting mauled in another thread, so I'll drag the Arcane Trickster out for abuse. Other than Invisible Thief and much realaxed entry requirements, what do you think of the AT? What can be done to fix any problems you see.

The AT has a BAB of a Wizard, half the skills (or less) than a rogue, is down many levels of casting, and loses out on all the class boosts that a pure wizard or pure rogue would get. A pure wizard will get more hps than an AT due to the favored class feature.

Upping the AT's BAB to medium will address some of this. While a wizard BAB can survive on touch attacks especially when targeting those denied their DEX (and hence also Dodge) bonus to AC, it is by no means on par with a rogue.

I would have AT levels stack with rogue levels for gaining rogue talents (and later major talents). Likewise have the AT levels stack with the wizard/sorcerer class levels for advancing school/bloodline powers.

I would increase the AT's skills per level to 6 rather than 4.

None of these changes would alter the feel of the PCs taking the PrC, but it would increase their effectiveness without imho overstepping bounds on the pure classes. They would still be about 3 full levels behind their 'pure class' counterparts which imho is a good yard stick for obtaining a second class.

-James