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Last week I posed two questions for society play but didn't get a definitive answer to either.
1. I have a broken (Not destroyed) +1 Keen scimitar. Since this will take a 10th level magic user to cast the 'make whole' spell can I use my PA points to fix the sword? I am unsure because it states that "Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level".
2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.
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Last week I posed two questions for society play but didn't get a definitive answer to either.
1. I have a broken (Not destroyed) +1 Keen scimitar. Since this will take a 10th level magic user to cast the 'make whole' spell can I use my PA points to fix the sword? I am unsure because it states that "Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level".
You may have any spell on table 11-1 cast on you for the PA cost indicated. Make Whole costs 1 PA (it's the fourth one on the list). I believe (but I could be wrong) that the intent is that it's a way for broken equipment to be repaired, and would be cast at the level needed to repair the object.
2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.
I do not remember if an official response has been made. I will to dig for it when I have some time.
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2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.
The best I can find is a post by Sean found here which states yes you can. He clearly indicates that he doesn't make these decisions for PFSOP though.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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1. I have a broken (Not destroyed) +1 Keen scimitar. Since this will take a 10th level magic user to cast the 'make whole' spell can I use my PA points to fix the sword? I am unsure because it states that "Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level".
2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.
1) Following the Guide's rule of "Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level" - spending 1 PA for a Make Whole spell wouldn't do you any good versus a broken Caster Level 10 +1 keen weapon.
I would suggest spending 50 gp for a 10th level caster to cast Mending for each 1d4 hit points your weapon needs. Or if the scimitar needs a lot of hit points, spend 200 gp for a 10th level caster to cast Make Whole and bring it to full.2) I don't see why you couldn't upgrade, but you're right - you'll need an official answer. However, don't be surprised if the official answer is "ask in the rules forum." FYI, the answer in the rules forum will be "ask your GM."
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Miller,
If this was happening in a home game I would certainly ask the GM. But since anything that I do that is open to interpretation affects every GM I play with I would really like an answer that I can show to any of the GM's that would disagree with whatever choice I make. With the belt, if all of the belts fell under a single magic item description, "magic belts" perhaps, there would be little question that you could upgrade them like a sword or a piece of armor. Since there are seperate descriptions and listings in the magic items section I am unsure.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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Miller,
If this was happening in a home game I would certainly ask the GM. But since anything that I do that is open to interpretation affects every GM I play with I would really like an answer that I can show to any of the GM's that would disagree with whatever choice I make. With the belt, if all of the belts fell under a single magic item description, "magic belts" perhaps, there would be little question that you could upgrade them like a sword or a piece of armor. Since there are seperate descriptions and listings in the magic items section I am unsure.
I agree with you completely. I, too, would like official answers for PFS, but frequently the scenario I laid out happens. "Ask the rule forums" -> "Ask your GM." I even attended a rule seminar at GenCon to discuss this issue of run-around and their response was to use the FAQ taging option on the message boards.
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As I understand it, unless a GM has made a decision that is obviously against the rules, then it isn't up to another GM to retroactively disallow it. Upgrading a "grey area" itme like you describe, providing you legally paid for it and had the appropriate PFS-legal method to do so, shouldn't be something a GM should cherry-pick out of your character. (And where do these GM's find the time to retroactively reconstruct everyone's character from first principles when they run a session? Really! ;)
Disclaimers:
No official role in PFS at more than 5' range from my own game table.
No subscriptions since I support my FLGS.
1. I have a broken (Not destroyed) +1 Keen scimitar. Since this will take a 10th level magic user to cast the 'make whole' spell can I use my PA points to fix the sword? I am unsure because it states that "Any spellcasting purchased using CPA is cast at minimum caster level".
If you were to spend PA, then the spell is always cast at minimum caster level, and anything higher than minimum level must be paid for with gold. So if you are buying the spell with gold, you use the formula from the Core Book on page 159:
Caster level × spell level × 10 gp
Make Whole is a 2nd level spell and if it requires a 10th level caster to fix your sword, then the total cost is 200 gold per casting til the HP of the weapon is fully restored. If your sword still has at least 1 HP and has not lost it magical powers, then you only need a Mending spell. My only question is that since it is a 0 level spell, does it cost the same as a 1st level spell to buy or is it half the price, the same way a scroll of a 0 level spell is half the price of a scroll of a 1st level spell. So the cost for a Mending would be either 50 or 100 gold per casting til all the HP are restored.
2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might?
This one is trickier, because both by the way the Guide is worded and because of answers to similar questions in other threads, I think that upgrading is supposed to only be available for weapons, armor and shields, or the items at least have to be the same in whichever book they are described. Even though they are both belts, they are actually separate items in both name and how they are listed in the Core Book, so my ruling would be no. However, you could upgrade the Giant Strength from +2 to +4 or +6 for the difference in price, the same as upgrading a sword from +1 to +2, etc.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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My only question is that since it is a 0 level spell, does it cost the same as a 1st level spell to buy or is it half the price, the same way a scroll of a 0 level spell is half the price of a scroll of a 1st level spell. So the cost for a Mending would be either 50 or 100 gold per casting til all the HP are restored.
Footnote #3 on page 159 of the Corebook says to use a spell level of 1/2 for 0-level spells to calculate the cost.
It's also in a table here
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 4
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Make Whole is a 2nd level spell and if it requires a 10th level caster to fix your sword, then the total cost is 200 gold per casting til the HP of the weapon is fully restored.
My understanding of the Make Whole spell is that one casting will completely repair the object; whereas, Mending will only repair 1d4 hp, but I could see where a different conclusion could be drawn.
No, Make Whole says it works the same as Mending except that it also repairs constructs and can restore magic items that have 0 HP without losing the magic qualities. Otherwise, it is the same, including the repairing of 1d4 HP per casting. And Make Whole also does not require you having all the pieces for the spell to work. So if you left the tip of your sword in a dead body somewhere, you would need Make Whole, but if you collected all the broken pieces, then you could use Mending if the breaking did not reduce the HP to 0.
Footnote #3 on page 159 of the Corebook says to use a spell level of 1/2 for 0-level spells to calculate the cost.
Cool. I missed that footnote. So you would only need to pay 50 gold per casting of Mending since your sword is not at 0 HP.
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2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might?This one is trickier, because both by the way the Guide is worded and because of answers to similar questions in other threads, I think that upgrading is supposed to only be available for weapons, armor and shields, or the items at least have to be the same in whichever book they are described. Even though they are both belts, they are actually separate items in both name and how they are listed in the Core Book, so my ruling would be no. However, you could upgrade the Giant Strength from +2 to +4 or +6 for the difference in price, the same as upgrading a sword from +1 to +2, etc.
I tend to agree, but this is why I was hoping for a ruling. In the broader sence, I am not fundamentally changing the belt, only adding an additional enhancement, one that is allowed in the core book. This feels very much the same as adding "keen" to a +1 sword; allowed. Not the same as changing a steel +1 sword to an sword made of adamantine; not allowed.
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2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.The best I can find is a post by Sean found here which states yes you can. He clearly indicates that he doesn't make these decisions for PFSOP though.
Since Sean indicates that's acceptable by Core Rules, then that's acceptable in Society play.
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Instead of paying 50gp per Mending for only 1d4 hit points per casting, just ask a spellcaster in the party to do it next time you play. Mending is only a 0-level spell, after all, so he can just cast it infinitely for free instead of you paying an exorbitant rate to fix your scimitar.
Squidmasher,
Thanks, I didn't think of that. That absolutely solves that problem.