Hi all,
I'm about to run a new Pathfinder RPG campaign for my group, and I'm a little short of time, so I'm going with one of the APs that I currently have sitting on the shelf. I'm going to throw it open to my group for which one, but I'm wondering what you think of the various APs.
Which would be best for a group that:
A) Wants traditional (i.e. old school Greyhawk style, wilderness exploration and dungeon crawling mostly) fantasy gaming. Our last couple campaigns have been a 4th Ed Homebrew, then 4th Ed/Eberron (Seekers of the Ashen Crown), and then a quick Mutants and Masterminds one that I ran for the last month or so as a filler. Now they want to try out PFRPG and return to some "traditional" DnD.
B) Likes campaigns that have dungeon crawls, but not having the *entire* campaign in one long crawl. For example they loved Hommlet and the Moathouse, but eventually got tired of Temple of Elemental Evil due to the length.
C) They like a bit of sandbox, but if its too open ended, I either have to railroad, or they get way off track. Especially true in large cities.
D) They want to start at level 1. (So that rules out cobbling together a chain of the higher level adventures)
E) They like dark, macabre horror and lovecraftian elements, as long as it isn't overdone. So Ravenloft the adventure is fine, but setting an entire campaign in Ravenloft is out.
They've liked Paizo APs in the past (I've run Age of Worms and Savage Tide for them), and as a DM, I like having a lot of the work done for me.
Looking at my shelf of unused (so far) RPG stuff, I have the following choices:
1. Rise of the Runelords. Personally, I loved reading this one, and the group shouldn't have any problems with the Skinsaw murders or deliverance Ogres. Only problem could be that I lifted some of the encounters from the first 2 adventures for use in the campaign I was running at the time they were published, but I doubt the players will figure that out.
2. Curse of the Crimson Throne. Its an option, but I'm inclined to write it off due to the sandbox nature of an Urban campaign, unless upon a re-read there are more railroads (invisible or not) than I remember.
3. Second Darkness. I like the idea of this one, but I've heard some pretty bad reviews from DMs once I started scanning the boards today.
4. Legacy of Fire. Possible, but I'm not sure the Arabian theme wouldn't get worn out with my group by the time it was all over.
5. Cobbling together the various Falcon's Hollow adventures into a campaign. This would be sort of sandbox-ish, but as long as its limited to the valley itself it shouldn't be too big a deal.
Any comments from those that have run the APs?
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Hi all,
I'm about to run a new Pathfinder RPG campaign for my group, and I'm a little short of time, so I'm going with one of the APs that I currently have sitting on the shelf. I'm going to throw it open to my group for which one, but I'm wondering what you think of the various APs.
Which would be best for a group that:
A) Wants traditional (i.e. old school Greyhawk style, wilderness exploration and dungeon crawling mostly) fantasy gaming. Our last couple campaigns have been a 4th Ed Homebrew, then 4th Ed/Eberron (Seekers of the Ashen Crown), and then a quick Mutants and Masterminds one that I ran for the last month or so as a filler. Now they want to try out PFRPG and return to some "traditional" DnD.
B) Likes campaigns that have dungeon crawls, but not having the *entire* campaign in one long crawl. For example they loved Hommlet and the Moathouse, but eventually got tired of Temple of Elemental Evil due to the length.
C) They like a bit of sandbox, but if its too open ended, I either have to railroad, or they get way off track. Especially true in large cities.
D) They want to start at level 1. (So that rules out cobbling together a chain of the higher level adventures)
E) They like dark, macabre horror and lovecraftian elements, as long as it isn't overdone. So Ravenloft the adventure is fine, but setting an entire campaign in Ravenloft is out.They've liked Paizo APs in the past (I've run Age of Worms and Savage Tide for them), and as a DM, I like having a lot of the work done for me.
Looking at my shelf of unused (so far) RPG stuff, I have the following choices:
1. Rise of the Runelords. Personally, I loved reading this one, and the group shouldn't have any problems with the Skinsaw murders or deliverance Ogres. Only problem could be that I lifted some of the encounters from the first 2 adventures for use in the campaign I was running at the time they were published, but I doubt the players will figure that out.
2. Curse of the Crimson Throne. Its an option, but I'm inclined to write...
I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne AND Kingmaker (seperately). The former has plenty of great dungeons, and has a strong narrative thread for the party to follow if that's their interest. Korvosa can be a bit dark, but no worse than Gotham City. There are occasional Lovecraftian Elements (see: Book 4 for a tentacled monstrosity of horrific proportion).
Give Curse a read it's a very solid contender with the criteria you've provided.
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Yup, Curse of the Crimson throne seems just right. While it is an urban campaign, it isn't a sandbox, and 1/3 of the AP happens outside of the city anyway.
CotCT features the best Paizo dungeon crawl to date - an amazing "Castlevania meets Ravenloft" castle, full of macabre skeletal aberrations and insane ghosts. Your players will like it :)
Yup, Curse of the Crimson throne seems just right. While it is an urban campaign, it isn't a sandbox, and 1/3 of the AP happens outside of the city anyway.
CotCT features the best Paizo dungeon crawl to date - an amazing "Castlevania meets Ravenloft" castle, full of macabre skeletal aberrations and insane ghosts. Your players will like it :)
Thanks for the feedback, I'll give Curse another read through. (To be honest, I skimmed them when they were published, but then they went on the shelf with the other unused modules. So it has been a few years)
*And I just realized this thread went in the wrong forum, if any Paizo mods see this, can you move it please? Thanks
Rise of the Runelords fits almost all of your requirements like a glove, especially A and E (parts of the last few adventures have very lovecraft-inspired stuff).
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Rise of the Runelords fits almost all of your requirements like a glove, especially A and E (parts of the last few adventures have very lovecraft-inspired stuff).
Yep, certainly when I went through your list it triggered off on RotRL.
CotCT certainly has a reasonable amount of railroading, heck part four specifically has a sidebar about how it's really railroady and you should adapt that if it would annoy your players!
Just a word in defense of Second Darkness: I'm running it right now, and my players are having a great time. It does require some tweaking to link together the books in a more organic way, but I never run anything exactly as written anyway so I enjoy the customization, making it my own.
That said, it doesn't sound like the AP for your group, as there are lots of opportunities for tangents to overwhelm the storyline in Riddleport; I had a very hard time keeping my group on the main plotline in the first book.
Currently running rise of the runelords. I'd suggest it for your group. Its got dungeon crawls but not exhaustive ones. The ideas and ways they portray goblins can be fun and there is an excellent thread with a link to a goblin song mps that's really great for this AP. An optional encounter in the first part has a PC get caught in an affair with a local merchants daughter. Got a veteran PC in over his head and the town guard was called. He's going to be affected by LUST haunts and other thigns later on.
The second part has a great haunted mansion and with different players being affected by each haunt. The scarecrows that are actually disguised ghouls will be an awesome surprise. As will Alderns obsession with one of the PC's. Then there's the lamia that is a real challenge and has caused many TPK's. Its a great thing with an experienced group to challenge them. Haven't read much past the second part nut i beleive they eventual get a chance to make a mountain stronghold theirs which is always cool.
I liked Second Darkness, but it is a bit of a railroad to move from one book to the next. Some people didn't like certain aspects of it, but I really think it has some great parts to it.
Legacy of Fire is also awesome, and it has some longer dungeons compared to SD. If you ever wanted to play Arabian Nights, this one is great.
I haven't played/read the other 2 but I've only heard good things about them.
My suggestion: Print out all of the player's guides for each AP you have and let the player's look through them and vote. All of them are worthy of playing, so whichever one grabs your player's attention will probably be the best one.
I'd recommend Rise of the Runelords to start with, it's still the gold standard.
Curse of the Crimson Throne is good but almost too railroady... As a player I got annoyed in Chapter 4. It certainly isn't a "traditional" type of adventure like what it sounds like they might expect so I might leave that till later.
I really like Second Darkness we are starting it in two weeks. I have made a full convert to Pathfinder and have a thread on this site about it (would link it but I suck at links)
The only thing I didnt like I was the empty level between book 2 and 3 so I made everything in the first books a level higher.
But its pretty easy not to advance them the one level.
I also enjoyed Rise of the Runelords but it has its flaws and can use help joining some of the adventures and stories
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I really like Second Darkness we are starting it in two weeks. I have made a full convert to Pathfinder and have a thread on this site about it (would link it but I suck at links)
The only thing I didnt like I was the empty level between book 2 and 3 so I made everything in the first books a level higher.
But its pretty easy not to advance them the one level.
I also enjoyed Rise of the Runelords but it has its flaws and can use help joining some of the adventures and stories
Second Darkness suffers from an Epic Plot Failure in book 5. Good luck to anybody running it as written, my players would strangle me with a shoe lace if I tried.
Second Darkness suffers from an Epic Plot Failure in book 5. Good luck to anybody running it as written, my players would strangle me with a shoe lace if I tried.I really like Second Darkness we are starting it in two weeks. I have made a full convert to Pathfinder and have a thread on this site about it (would link it but I suck at links)
The only thing I didnt like I was the empty level between book 2 and 3 so I made everything in the first books a level higher.
But its pretty easy not to advance them the one level.
I also enjoyed Rise of the Runelords but it has its flaws and can use help joining some of the adventures and stories
Please Explain to me the EPIC plot failure this secret organization that is keeping up the fasade of power is crubling when the PCs show up and either destroy it or save it. Yeah in the long all it really does is gives the PCs the knowledge about the drow and gives them the levels they will need to go into the Darklands, but please tell me more that I missed cause I was reading it all so maybe thats why it made since to me and maybe wont to my players
Cause in Rise it does the same thing with the fifth book why is that dungeon really needed?
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This is how Memory of Darkness falls flat on the face:
At some point of the AP, the players get along with Kyonin Elves, and proceed to pretty more or less altruistically help them with their trouble.
That's not "our hometown/homeland is in danger" of RotRL, CotCT and CoT, that's not even "we're gonna get stinking rich" of LoF and KM. That's "we're Elves, we're (mostly) Good, we're in trouble, please help".
Now, the PCs return from an uber-high-risk infiltration mission, and what do they get for a reward ?
They get jailed. By a person that's supposed to be their Quest Giver Sponsor NPC. And they're supposed to get out by throwing their lot with a succubus and help her attack an elven stronghold. Because it's all part of clandestine elven politics.
What would my party do if they managed to get away from the prison in Kyonin ? There are two options:
1. Inflitrate the WC stronghold, beat the crap out of anyone (Guys, those are Good elves, just misguided, let's use nonlethal tactics ! DISREGARD THAT, POWER ATTACK !) and discover that the drow plot pretty much endangers Kyonin and not much else. At this point, greater teleport to Absalom and look for a new job.
2. Greater teleport to Absalom right away and spend their nights coming up with new amusing insults about elves.
This is how Memory of Darkness falls flat on the face:
** spoiler omitted **
I looked over both Second Darkness and ROTRL and found rise easier to pitch to the PC's than second darkness.
edit: Love kingmaker so far more than any other AP (i'm a player not a GM for that one) but its very sandboxy and didn't seem like what the op wanted.
This is how Memory of Darkness falls flat on the face:
** spoiler omitted **
This is how Memory of Darkness falls flat on the face:
Spoiler:That's not "our hometown/homeland is in danger" of RotRL, CotCT and CoT, that's not even "we're gonna get stinking rich" of LoF and KM. That's "we're Elves, we're (mostly) Good, we're in trouble, please help".
... as in it would be highly likely that the player characters will fall into the neutral range themselves?
... as in it seems entirely reasonable for these neutrally aligned Player Characters to answer "we're Elves, we're (mostly) Good, we're in trouble, please help" with "Sorry, but no."
Please Explain to me the EPIC plot failure this secret organization that is keeping up the fasade of power is crubling when the PCs show up and either destroy it or save it. Yeah in the long all it really does is gives the PCs the knowledge about the drow and gives them the levels they will need to go into the Darklands, but please tell me more that I missed cause I was reading it all so maybe thats why it made since to me and maybe wont to my players
Cause in Rise it does the same thing with the fifth book why is that dungeon really needed?
The difference is that while, it is true that "Sins of the Saviors" is not actually needed, it does not motivate the heroes to turn on their supposed employers - which from what I have been hearing, "A Memory of Darkness" does.
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** spoiler omitted **This is how Memory of Darkness falls flat on the face:
** spoiler omitted **
That is a way, but I buy Paizo APs in order to run them with minimum work, and if I see that I have to rewrite an adventure I lose my patience quickly.
CoT is also guilty of this, but at least the stinker is the 1st adventure, so there is plenty of room to change stuff - unlike SD where the Bad Things happen in the *penultimate* chapter, and you have a whole baggage of campaign behind you. Ugh.
I'll be curious to see what the op runs
Whatever you choose to run, Talion, I'd definitely suggest mining the particular path's subforum for information. There's some good discussion of what people saw as pitfalls and how to work around them.
Yeah, I recommend CotCT as well. I am running it right now and I find it does guide the players well enough. There is also enough possibility to mix up some elements of it to make it feel less railroady in the earlier modules, but as far as I can see, it becomes pretty linear in the later part. It also has enough dungeons, maybe even a bit too much in the last two modules. But it is far from the level of Temple of Elemental Evil.