Hello everyone! I've been tooling around with a race using the system found in this thread. Was curious on if it seems balanced to people or not for a core playable race with NO level adjustment to CL.
Here it is:
Wispkin Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Though less hardy due to their small stature, the wispkin are surprisingly nimble, and half a strong sense of willpower.
Small: Wispkin are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on stealth checks.
Slow Speed: Wispkin have a base speed of 20 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Wispkin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Defensive Training:Wispkin get a +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant type.
Magic of the Wisp:Wispkin with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day – disguise self, ghost sound, prestidigitation. The caster level for these effects is equal to the wispkin’s level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the wispkin’s Charisma modifier.
Wings of the Wisp:Wispkin have faint magical gossamer wings that aren’t truly there, but are merely a sign of their close ties to magic. They give the wispkin the ability to float up 20ft. in a single round (with good maneuverability), but must begin and end their movement on a flat surface. If they end their movement in the air, they immediately fall straight down and take falling damage as applicable.
Wispfriend: Somewhere between the age of 10 and 12, wispkin mature slightly and are, from then on, able to call a small portion of their fey spirits in the form of a wisp. To call their wisp is a standard action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. The wisp sheds light as either a hooded lantern or a torch, at the wispkin’s discretion, and appears similar to a small Will-O’-Wisp of a color chosen at character creation. The wisp moves as the wispkin desires (with no concentration required), but must stay within 10 ft. of the wispkin, or winks out. The wisp may be dismissed as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Enemies of the Fey:Wispkin gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the giant and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against the hated enemies of the fey.
Wild and Free:Wispkin gain a +2 racial bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Keen Senses:Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Expressive: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Perform skill of their choice.
Fey Blood: Wispkin count as fey for the purposes of spells and abilities related to race.
Languages: Wispkin begin play speaking Common, Wisp, and Sylvan. Wispkin with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc.
The majority of it seems balanced to me, but something still seems a bit off for some reason... I just need to get a bit of input from some people, or confirmation that it is indeed balanced. Thank you for your time and attention!
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The Pathfinder Race Building Guide That VoodooMike made is a godsend for this kind of thing. Breaking it down as per the guide:
Wispkin Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution (0)
Small (0)
Slow Speed (-4)
Low-Light Vision (1)
Defensive Training (1)
Magic of the Wisp (4)
Wings of the Wisp (2)
Wispfriend (1)
Enemies of the Fey (1)
Wild and Free (1)
Keen Senses (1)
Expressive (1)
Fey Blood (1)
Languages (0)
Total = 10 points, which brings it on par with the core races.
Oh, that's how you scaled it? When I did it, I used something along the lines of...
Slow (-4 Points)
Low-Light Vision (1 Point)
Defensive Training (1 Point)
Magic of the Wisp (3 Points) ad hoc -1 point due to less spells than the gnome. (two 0th level and one 1st level, as a gnome, with one less 0th level spell)
Wings of the Wisp (4 Points limited flight)
Wispfriend (1 Point, torchlight)
Enemies of the Fey (1 Point Hatred)
Wild and Free (1 Point)
Keen Senses (1 Point)
Expressive (1 Point)
Fey Blood (0 Points).
I made Fey Blood 0 because they still count as Humanoid (Wispkin), so they are actually just further included into spells that harm fey and whatnot. Which might actually be a penalty... not sure how to go about that thought. Originally, Wings of the Fey was 2 points, but supposedly flight, at will, even if slightly limited was quite powerful. Not sure though.
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With Magic of the Wisp, I see disguise self as far more useful than anything the Gnome gets, so I kept it as +4, I can certainly see the justification for reducing it based on spell level alone, though.
Wings of the Wisp isn't as useful as flight. You can't hover and act as a turret. If a ledge is more than 20 feet away, you might as well not even have the ability. 30 feet of flight is listed at 4 points, -10 to speed is listed at -4 points. I just found what I thought was a decent medium. I could also justify a cost of 3 points, but certainly not the full 4.
For Fey Blood, I don't see how its any more or less beneficial or harmful that the Half-Elf's Elf Blood or the Half-Orc's Orc Blood.
At any rate, both of our calculations came up to 10. ^_^
Sweet. Hm, I was contemplating making it that if the Wispkin does try to fly across a pit or something that is 20ft across or whatnot, they can make a reflex save or something (Though this is purely DM discretion) to grab the ledge they flew over to, or perhaps make it that if they DO use the last part of their movement to climb up a ledge, it becomes a full round action? Not sure if that unbalances them or not.
That is true, disguise self is better than anything the gnome gets. Though they do get speak with animal, I guess that's more specific and situational. I mostly wanted the Wispkin to be tricksters, and thought disguise self might work really well for them. However, if you think about it, even with disguise self, they can only make themselves really look like a halfling, another wispkin, or perhaps a dwarf at the maximum. Not sure though.
So! After about a week and a half of nothing new, I kind of retooled it a little, and tried to balance out the spell-like abilities a bit. I'm also working on a more sinister variation of the Wispkin (Splitting the race into the seelie and unseelie styles)... First!
Wispkin Racial Traits (Seelie)
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Though less hardy due to their small stature, the wispkin are surprisingly nimble, and have a strong sense of willpower.
Small: Wispkin are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on stealth checks.
Slow Speed: Wispkin have a base speed of 20 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Wispkin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Defensive Training: Wispkin get a +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant type.
Magic of the Wisp: Wispkin with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day – silent image, ghost sound, prestidigitation. The caster level for these effects is equal to the wispkin’s level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the wispkin’s Charisma modifier.
Wings of the Wisp: Wispkin have faint magical gossamer wings that aren’t truly there, but are merely a sign of their close ties to magic. They give the wispkin the ability to float up 20ft. in a single round (with good maneuverability), but must begin and end their movement on a flat surface. If they end their movement in the air, they immediately fall straight down and take falling damage as applicable.
Wisp Friend: Somewhere between the age of 10 and 12, wispkin mature slightly and are, from then on, able to call a small portion of their fey spirits in the form of a wisp. To call their wisp is a standard action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. The wisp sheds light as either a hooded lantern or a torch, at the wispkin’s discretion, and appears similar to a small Will-O’-Wisp of a color chosen at character creation. The wisp moves as the wispkin desires (with no concentration required), but must stay within 10 ft. of the wispkin, or winks out. The wisp may be dismissed as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Enemies of the Fey: Wispkin gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the giant and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against the hated enemies of the fey.
Wild and Free: Wispkin gain a +2 racial bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Keen Senses: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Expressive: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Perform skill of their choice.
Fey Blood: Wispkin count as fey for the purposes of spells and abilities related to race.
Languages: Wispkin begin play speaking Common, Wisp, and Sylvan. Wispkin with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc.
So I gave them silent image instead of disguise self, though am still churning the idea over in my head. The thought of disguise self for an already small race pretty much instantly restricts them to looking like: A halfling, or another wispkin. Either way, I wanted them to be more trickstery, so I figure silent image works fine. So, after thinking of that, I contemplated making an unseelie version, which is kind of like a trickster, but more malicious in their intent. Was thinking of making them actually hate humans and similar races instead of goblins and giants.
Anyway, here's what I have so far, but it's technically incomplete (The hatred and defensive training might be changed):
Wispkin Racial Traits (Unseelie)
+2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom: Though tougher than their seelie cousins, the unseelie wispkin are less agreeable, and are more alienated, causing their choices to sometimes be based only on what they know in their outcast societies.
Small: Wispkin are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on stealth checks.
Slow Speed: Wispkin have a base speed of 20 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Wispkin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Defensive Training: Wispkin get a +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the giant type. (Might make it a lower bonus to a few different types of creatures, mostly humanoids. Like dwarves, humans, elves, as I kind of wanted the unseelie to hate the big folk who enter their territory, unlike the seelie who welcome outsiders for the most part)
Magic of the Wisp: Wispkin with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day – disguise self (might change to memory lapse from the APG), ghost sound (Kind of want to change it to something more malicious, but can't think of anything balanced), prestidigitation. The caster level for these effects is equal to the wispkin’s level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the wispkin’s Charisma modifier.
Wings of the Wisp: Wispkin have faint magical gossamer wings that aren’t truly there, but are merely a sign of their close ties to magic. They give the wispkin the ability to float up 20ft. in a single round (with good maneuverability), but must begin and end their movement on a flat surface. If they end their movement in the air, they immediately fall straight down and take falling damage as applicable.
Wisp Friend: Somewhere between the age of 10 and 12, wispkin mature slightly and are, from then on, able to call a small portion of their fey spirits in the form of a wisp. To call their wisp is a standard action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. The wisp sheds light as either a hooded lantern or a torch, at the wispkin’s discretion, and appears similar to a small Will-O’-Wisp of a color chosen at character creation. The wisp moves as the wispkin desires (with no concentration required), but must stay within 10 ft. of the wispkin, or winks out. The wisp may be dismissed as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Enemies of the Fey: Wispkin gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the giant and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against the hated enemies of the fey. (Wanted to change this as well to only a couple of other humanoids, like humans and elves or something... but not sure on which specific humanoids I want them to hate, and not sure if human is too broad a race to be good against)
Wild and Free: Wispkin gain a +2 racial bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Keen Senses: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Expressive: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on a Craft or Perform skill of their choice.
Fey Blood: Wispkin count as fey for the purposes of spells and abilities related to race.
Languages: Wispkin begin play speaking Wisp, and Sylvan. Wispkin with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. Most unseelie don't care to learn common (At least not immediately), as they have no desire to speak to many outsiders.
Apart from the specifics of the unseelie, the thing I mostly question is the spell-like abilities, and the +2 racial save against mind-affecting spells and abilities. Wondering if I should narrow it further to mind affecting compulsion, or if it's fine with just mind affecting. Thoughts and opinions?
Not to be annoying, or purposely just bump this thread, but I was just hoping to get some more input on the current versions of the two (And I REALLY want to change the seelie one to be different). Though I almost make it sound like I am being lazy and requesting that others do the work for me, I just like having actual player input on things for balance sake. :) And thank you Viking, you are a constant help.
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At current, it looks like the only differences between the two are the stat modifiers and the Unseelie not getting Common as an automatic language.
IIRC, Seelie translates loosely to "Holy" and Unseelie to "Unholy." You might take a look at the Aasimar and Tiefling for inspiration as to how to differentiate the subraces.
Wispfriend might be better serviced as an at will dancing lights, at least from a mechanics point of view.
The Hatred trait looks fine for the Seelie, but you may want to drop Giant for the Unseelie and give them Fey. The Unseelie Court was notorious for taking out outsiders and their Seelie brethren alike.
Wings of the Wisp is still a bit...awkward. Depending on your intent, it might be better serviced as a variant of Slow Fall or the Spider Step feat from the APG.
Memory lapse is an incredibly flavorful spell, and you could always swap out ghost sound[/] for [i]flare. Dazzled is certainly more malicious than hearing things, and I don't think its too far out of line for the race.
Yeah, there's really not much difference with the Unseelie right now. I was thinking about the dancing lights thing, but I thought an at will dancing lights might be considered broken (even if it's mostly utility). Therefore, I more or less ended up making it just an at-will floating torch or lantern that doesn't go out. (Also to balance the points thing for when I was using the race builder).
Yeah, that's kind of a cool idea. I might make their hatred apply to humans and other fey. Wings of the Wisp IS kinda weird; it's mostly supposed to be like a floating hop type of thing, to be honest, because I didn't want a base race to be able to fly into the air at first level becoming a turret with a crossbow. So I had to make it kind of unable to be used for consecutive rounds. (I was thinking of making it possibly rounds per day, but for a RACE to do that sounds odd... like getting tired and not being able to do something for 24 hours)
I was actually thinking about the flare thing too, and I really do like the thought of Memory Lapse. Wasn't sure if it'd be considered broken if once a day people could technically steal something, then memory lapse to make the shopkeeper forget they even did that (if they can do that). But it is a cool spell and shows the malevolence of the unseelie Wispkin.
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There's really no utility to dancing lights aside from messing with people's heads. Very slightly more useful than light, which is a variant elf racial trait.
As far as Wings of the Wisp is concerned, you could look at the Raptorans from Races of the Wild (3.5). They were a pretty good example of how to make a flying race.
Also, memory lapse targets only one creature. If a merchant is silly enough to be alone in his shop every day, he deserves to get some stuff stolen. ^_^
Well, I kinda toned it down and made it into just a utility torch-light thing because I figured they already get some spells per day, and I thought it would just take the gnome and unbalance them if I ended up just making them have dancing lights at will instead of once per day.
Hmm, as for the Raptorans, I didn't really want a scaling version of flight. In an odd way, I didn't really want any core races to be able to fly in my world., that's why I SORTA made it so that they don't truly fly, but merely float for a bit.
I suppose that's true, regarding memory lapse, but chances are, some merchants would be alone in their store if they thought they were safe :P
Okay, here's an update on the unseelie.
Wispkin Racial Traits (Unseelie)
+2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom: Though tougher and more intelligent than their seelie cousins, the unseelie wispkin are less agreeable, and are more alienated, causing their choices to sometimes be based only on what they know in their outcast societies.
Small: Wispkin are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on stealth checks.
Slow Speed: Wispkin have a base speed of 20 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Wispkin can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Magic of the Wisp: Wispkin with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day – memory lapse, flare, prestidigitation. The caster level for these effects is equal to the wispkin’s level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the wispkin’s Charisma modifier.
Wings of the Wisp: Wispkin have faint magical gossamer wings that aren’t truly there, but are merely a sign of their close ties to magic. They give the wispkin the ability to float up 20ft. in a single round (with good maneuverability), but must begin and end their movement on a flat surface. If they end their movement in the air, they immediately fall straight down and take falling damage as applicable.
Wisp Friend: Somewhere between the age of 10 and 12, wispkin mature slightly and are, from then on, able to call a small portion of their fey spirits in the form of a wisp. To call their wisp is a standard action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. The wisp sheds light as either a hooded lantern or a torch, at the wispkin’s discretion, and appears similar to a small Will-O’-Wisp of a color chosen at character creation. The wisp moves as the wispkin desires (with no concentration required), but must stay within 10 ft. of the wispkin, or winks out. The wisp may be dismissed as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Dark Fey Hatred: Wispkin gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls and a +2 racial dodge bonus against humanoid creatures of the human subtype and creatures of the fey subtype. Unseelie wispkin are known for despising their brethren as much as the hated outsiders, and are trained to deal with both in kind.
Wild and Free: Wispkin gain a +2 racial bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Keen Senses: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Elusive: Wispkin receive a +2 racial bonus on their choice of either bluff or disguise checks.
Fey Blood: Wispkin count as fey for the purposes of spells and abilities related to race.
Languages: (Unseelie) Wispkin begin play speaking Wisp, and Sylvan. Wispkin with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc.
I still can't really tell if the +2 Dodge AC against Humans and Fey is equivalent to the +4 Dodge AC against giants or not, since Humans are probably a LOT more common than giants (though +2 is a bit less).
On that note, my friend once again was able to show me how easily exploitable the flight was. He said if he made a Wispkin ranger, he could just fly onto the rooves of the town they're in, make his pet fight, and shoot things with a crossbow from the rooftops... he was right, it's still kind of exploitable. Perhaps a scaling flight would work better, if I do it in a way that makes it that by the time they get proper flight, other casters can just cast it.