So I just began running a steampunk campaign that will have slightly less magic than the standard D&D world. Don't get me wrong, there will still be flaming swords and helmets that change your alignment (o wait that's cursed not magical) but I kind of want to get rid of magical items that give characters a bonus to an ability score. The problem with this is that I don't feel that characters will feel like they're ability scores are high enough, although I think every character in my campaign has an 18 in at least 1 score and all but 1 have at least a 19 in 1 score (we rolled stats), o don't feel sorry for the character that doesn't have a 19, he has 2-18s.
The problem I'm having is figuring out what level to give PCs ability bonuses. I had thought every 2 levels might be ok but then I realized that's a total of +10 and I don't really want a character walking around with a 25 Intelligence at level 10. So then I thought maybe I could do it every 2 levels still but the PCs can only boost 1 ability score every 4 levels, so say they put a +1 in Intelligence at 2nd level, they'd have to wait til 6th level before they could boost Intelligence again. Any thoughts or suggestions on what to do?
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So I just began running a steampunk campaign that will have slightly less magic than the standard D&D world. Don't get me wrong, there will still be flaming swords and helmets that change your alignment (o wait that's cursed not magical) but I kind of want to get rid of magical items that give characters a bonus to an ability score. The problem with this is that I don't feel that characters will feel like they're ability scores are high enough, although I think every character in my campaign has an 18 in at least 1 score and all but 1 have at least a 19 in 1 score (we rolled stats), o don't feel sorry for the character that doesn't have a 19, he has 2-18s.
The problem I'm having is figuring out what level to give PCs ability bonuses. I had thought every 2 levels might be ok but then I realized that's a total of +10 and I don't really want a character walking around with a 25 Intelligence at level 10. So then I thought maybe I could do it every 2 levels still but the PCs can only boost 1 ability score every 4 levels, so say they put a +1 in Intelligence at 2nd level, they'd have to wait til 6th level before they could boost Intelligence again. Any thoughts or suggestions on what to do?
My personal suggestion is to lower the armor on critters by 1, and reduce the number of hit points any given creature has by one per HD (Thereby effectively lower the HD any creature has) they posses.
Giving players more boosts wouldn't be game breaking but tweaking a system is MUCH easier and more transparent if you take care of it on your side of the table as opposed to changing rules players are used to using.
there was a long discussion a while back about replacing the 'bix six' items of which stat items are among. You can find it here link. There is an argument at the beggining but eventually it gets into some good ideas of how to replace the magic items in a lower magic game.
So I just began running a steampunk campaign that will have slightly less magic than the standard D&D world. Don't get me wrong, there will still be flaming swords and helmets that change your alignment (o wait that's cursed not magical) but I kind of want to get rid of magical items that give characters a bonus to an ability score. The problem with this is that I don't feel that characters will feel like they're ability scores are high enough, although I think every character in my campaign has an 18 in at least 1 score and all but 1 have at least a 19 in 1 score (we rolled stats), o don't feel sorry for the character that doesn't have a 19, he has 2-18s.
The problem I'm having is figuring out what level to give PCs ability bonuses. I had thought every 2 levels might be ok but then I realized that's a total of +10 and I don't really want a character walking around with a 25 Intelligence at level 10. So then I thought maybe I could do it every 2 levels still but the PCs can only boost 1 ability score every 4 levels, so say they put a +1 in Intelligence at 2nd level, they'd have to wait til 6th level before they could boost Intelligence again. Any thoughts or suggestions on what to do?
This is exactly what I do, but I don't start people out with such high scores.
It gives the game a nice symmetry, every level you either get a feat or an ability. In terms of game balance, the most important thing is to not let scores get absurdly high, esp because it affects DCs for spells, and by not letting them take the same ability twice, you have ensured that scores don't get higher than they would in RAW.The rabid powergamer will always feel compelled to add to the ability score that is already highest, even when it is currently even, so the rule actually gives them some freedom to choose other scores.
The only problem is that you really ought to do the same thing to monsters, meaning you can't use the stats right out of the book.
This is exactly what I do, but I don't start people out with such high scores.
It gives the game a nice symmetry, every level you either get a feat or an ability. In terms of game balance, the most important thing is to not let scores get absurdly high, esp because it affects DCs for spells, and by not letting them take the same ability twice, you have ensured that scores don't get higher than they would in RAW.The rabid powergamer will always feel compelled to add to the ability score that is already highest, even when it is currently even, so the rule actually gives them some freedom to choose other scores.
The only problem is that you really ought to do the same thing to monsters, meaning you can't use the stats right out of the book.
Well currently, since we have a large PC wielding a greatsword with a 22 strength (ya go figure, the fighter puts his highest roll in strength, I guess it's slightly better than a Barbarian with a 22 strength though) all the NPC monsters have max HP and all BBEG's (which have not been encountered yet) will probably have double or possibly even triple HP. So the NPC's should be fine against PCs with high ability scores.
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My character takes this feat from AEG Feats:
Legendary [General]
Prerequisite: No ability score below 12.
Benefit: Add one point to any ability score every three levels, from the time this feat is taken.
Normal: Characters add 1 to any ability score at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th).
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well, steam punk should have no problem with items of strength. piston powered accelerator arms (armor or gauntlets)
tomes of mental stats are gonna become needed if you have casters. monsters hive such high saves at later levels that if caster don't bump up their casting stat with +2-6 items (based on level) their dc's and spells per day are going to be lower than accounted for when fighting monster and determining CR's.
well, steam punk should have no problem with items of strength. piston powered accelerator arms (armor or gauntlets)
I've actually got steam powered limbs, they don't add to strength you can just add a +2 to damage so many times per day.
tomes of mental stats are gonna become needed if you have casters. monsters hive such high saves at later levels that if caster don't bump up their casting stat with +2-6 items (based on level) their dc's and spells per day are going to be lower than accounted for when fighting monster and determining CR's.
That's why I'm trying to figure out how to give them more bonuses without giving them too many or too little.
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well at 20th level characters are assumed to have 12-24 stat bosts from wearing items, depending on how high powered the game you're running is, but 16-18 is about average. not including inherant bonuses from tomes and wishes.
so if you want a high powered game give an additional stat point every level and no +stat gear. if you want a more conservative game scale it down, and maybe drop some +2 stat gear. either way but keep the normal 1 every 4 levels.
the problem with giving stat points is you have no control on if they min max 1 stat. you may wanna stipulate you can't put more than 1/2 or 1/3 your level (so max +1 to individual stats at 3, +2 at 6, +3 at 9th, +4 at 12th, +5 at 15, +6 at 18). let them save stat points to spend when they level
using the point every level method (including the total of 2 points at every 4th level) you have 25 points total or:
spending no more than 1/3rd level
+6 to 3 stats and +2 to one
+6 to 2 stats, +4 to 2 stats
+4 to 5 stats
now that method seems to actually not help the primary stats much more than level upgrades (up to 1 more point than normal), but does help keep the defensive/secondary stats up to normal gear expectations.
half level would keep the primary stat where it should be with gear and either a monstrous secondary stat or correct multiple stats
so it looks like 1 stat point a level, pick 1 stat you can raise up to 1/2 level and all other stats can be raised up to 1/3 level and you can bypass dropping stat gear except the occasional tome
+10 to one stat, +6 to one stat, +4 to one stat
*edit i forgot about thinks like belt of physical perfection, so you ay actually want to give 30 points total. 1 every odd level (even first)and 2 every even level with a 1 at 1/2 level, 2 at 1/3 level, and the rest no more than 1/4 level stipulation
so you can have:
+10 to one stat (actually a point short of normal geared stat)
+6 to 2 stats
+4 to 2 stats
which is the same as equivalent stat gear for a 20th level character, and tomes can be special since they are the only artificial way to raise a stat
My character takes this feat from AEG Feats:
Legendary [General]
Prerequisite: No ability score below 12.
Benefit: Add one point to any ability score every three levels, from the time this feat is taken.
Normal: Characters add 1 to any ability score at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th).
Your character screws him/herself over.
Stuff
That seems a little complicated and slightly overboard compared to just getting a +1 every 2 levels and only being able to add a +1 to any stat every 4 levels.
I have a houserule that I use for this purpose:
Each level after the first, you may choose one of the following abilities. These abilities are supernatural, and represent your heroic spirit.
* +1 Enhancement bonus to Armor, Shield, or Weapon. This bonus may not exceed 1/4th of your level (round up, so at 5 you can gain +2, at 9 you can gain +3, etc). The shield bonus applies whenever you have a shield equipped, and the armor bonus applies whenever you are wearing anything. You can apply the weapon bonus to a single weapon with one minute of practice, and you may choose to purchase additional weapon bonuses (so you may have a +3 weapon and two +1 weapons).
* +4 Competence bonus to any skill. Starting at 7th level, you may purchase this bonus for a skill a second time for a total bonus of +8, and at 14th level you may purchase it a third time for a single skill for a total of +12.
* +2 Enhancement bonus to a single attribute. This bonus may not exceed +2 until level 7, and may not exceed +4 until level 14. Even after level 14, it may not exceed +6. These bonuses apply when leveling (for example, int for number of new skill points, or con for HP).
* One additional spell slot or spell per day of any level except the highest level you can cast. You may only select this ability once for every two levels you have.
* +1 Resistance bonus to saves. This bonus may not exceed 1/4th of your character level (round up, so at 5 you can gain +2, at 9 you can gain +3, etc).
In my game it's used in exchange for roughly half of the normal loot.
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Why is that?
Your character screws him/herself over.
Every 4 levels gives you 5 stat points. Every 3 levels gives you 6. You basically spent a feat on gaining a single ability score point, and moving the progression back a bit. It could be argued that plenty of feats are more worth-while that a single ability score point.
This also assumes that you take it at first level. If you don't then, depending on when you take it, you may not get another point at all (and in fact lose one if you take it at exactly level 19).
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Why is that?
Your character screws him/herself over.
Pobably because he is spending a feat to get some mythical bonus in the future. It does him no good when he takes it, and if the campaign stops before he levels that far, he gets no benefit. Hell, even if he gets that first increase, he has spent a feat to get a 1 point ability boost one level earlier than he usually would. Unless you're building a character to start at level 15+, you will never see the difference in-game. You could have just chosen Weapon Focus or Dodge and gotten an immediate +1 to something instead of saving up for later.
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Every 4 levels gives you 5 stat points. Every 3 levels gives you 6. You basically spent a feat on gaining a single ability score point, and moving the progression back a bit. It could be argued that plenty of feats are more worth-while that a single ability score point.
This also assumes that you take it at first level. If you don't then, depending on when you take it, you may not get another point at all (and in fact lose one if you take it at exactly level 19).
Oh, okay. Well, he took it at level 1 and we plan on playing until level 30, which will be our last level. At level 30, that will be a +10 vs. a +7. I think that's decent considering epic feats (e.g. Great Wisdom) only give you a +1.
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Well I hope you manage to play all that way. Most of the games I play, I want to spend my feats on things that will help me the whole way, not just in the end game.
+1
If a feat is designed with a certain amount of gain, then just give it directly. If you want them to gain an extra stat point every 10 levels, then say "Those with this feat gain an extra ability score point. They gain another extra ability score point at level 15 and every 10 levels thereafter." This prevents oddities and guarantees that there is some immediate benefit.Just a general feat design rule: There should be an immediate, tangible benefit. Another unrelated one: Benefits that reduce in value drastically with level should scale automatically (such as toughness).
Why is that?
Your character screws him/herself over.
O, I thought you were being sarcastic and saying a character in my game would do something like that. I don't think that feat's too bad in the long run (especially if you're playing to 30) although some other people do bring up some good points. I think I'm going to go with the +1 every even level but you can only add a +1 to 1 ability score every 4 levels.
4E was a horrible D&D game, but it may have what you are looking for:
LV.
4 +1 to 2
8 +1 to 2
10 +1 to all
14 +1 to 2
18 +1 to 2
20 +1 to all
That's a +2 to all attributes and no more than a +6 to any one.
4E was a horrible D&D game, but it may have what you are looking for:
LV.
4 +1 to 2
8 +1 to 2
10 +1 to all
14 +1 to 2
18 +1 to 2
20 +1 to allThat's a +2 to all attributes and no more than a +6 to any one.
Hm... I'm not a big fan of +1 to all but +1 to 2 every 4 levels doesn't sound too bad (I'm assuming they can't be the same ability score).
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So then I thought maybe I could do it every 2 levels still but the PCs can only boost 1 ability score every 4 levels, so say they put a +1 in Intelligence at 2nd level, they'd have to wait til 6th level before they could boost Intelligence again.
This is the exact system we use. It's worked amazing so far. Classes that are MAD (who would distribute ability points anyway) aren't hindered, while classes that aren't don't get the HUGE bonuses from it (at maximum a +5 to two ability scores).
My vote is to go with it :P
Anybody who is out adventuring would be getting better all around, even if by accident. And you are correct +1 to 2 different attributes.
So then I thought maybe I could do it every 2 levels still but the PCs can only boost 1 ability score every 4 levels, so say they put a +1 in Intelligence at 2nd level, they'd have to wait til 6th level before they could boost Intelligence again.This is the exact system we use. It's worked amazing so far. Classes that are MAD (who would distribute ability points anyway) aren't hindered, while classes that aren't don't get the HUGE bonuses from it (at maximum a +5 to two ability scores).
My vote is to go with it :P
This is what I think I'm going to go with, it'll help PCs out if there's no magic ability boosting items and they've all started with pretty high ability scores so they should be good against higher CR monsters when they get to them. I may forgo the 2nd level +1 (because I started the party at 3rd level) and just start giving bonuses at 4th and every even level after to make up for their high starting ability scores.
How about some true heresy to the rules;
keep the normal increases but change the modifiers. The result gives more survivablity at lower levels, but not over the top later.
Score Modifier
10 +0
11 +1
12 +1
13 +2
14 +3
15 +3
16 +4
17 +5
18 +6
19 +6
20 +7
21 +8
22 +9
23 +9
24 +10
How about some true heresy to the rules;
keep the normal increases but change the modifiers. The result gives more survivablity at lower levels, but not over the top later.Score Modifier
10 +0
11 +1
12 +1
13 +2
14 +3
15 +3
16 +4
17 +5
18 +6
19 +6
20 +7
21 +8
22 +9
23 +9
24 +10
This is something that would have been a good idea if I'd have used a point buy instead of rolling scores because 1 of my characters has a 22 strength (roll of 18 plus a +4 racial bonus) plus he's large and carries a great sword so 3d6+13 would be a little much for me lol.
Yea, to use it they would have to have less starting adjustments.
One thing I did once for Modern, was at every 4th level, all abilities would get a +1 adjustment...It was a no magic game, and it wasn't unbalanced because they had no items to do increase them, and it was meant for skill-heavy characters.