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Okay so I just finished watching Iron Man 2 in the theater and I friggen loved it. But as I was leaving I realized that more and more the structure is getting into a formula that I'm going to lay out.
Movie 1= origin story, usually good with some awkward moments, satisfying but bothersome in some ways.
Movie 2= the story they should have told to begin with, no awkward origin that rewrites things about the character or introduces love interests that never existed. The character hits his swing in this movie and it's almost always a satisfying experience. Usually better than the first
Movie 3= A poorly written schlockfest where the producers try to take back creative control so they can throw more marketable action and because they have no idea what they're really doing the movie winds up horrible with plot holes you can drive a truck through and this kills the franchise requiring a reboot.
examples
x-men- pretty good movie, takes some getting used to with characters ages being all screwy and some terrible lines (you know what happens to a toad struck by lightning?) but all in all great film
x-men 2- the movie hits its swing, all the characters are developed and the plot and pacing are excellent.
x-men 3- really? really? collosus has one line that has no relevance to the plot, no explanation as to where kurt went (not even a throw away one line), storms spin punching juggernaught, he lifts the bridge and doesn't just drop it on the building, and so on and so on...
Spider man- Pretty good movie, yeah the green goblin is wearing a dumb power rangers armor, and they took the most classic scene from the comics, a scene that shapes peter parker as a person, and they change it to where he saves the girl, but overall a good start to the franchise.
Spider man 2- Now we're talking, a sympathetic villain, great themes about the nature of man, epic battles and awesome effects.
Spider man 3- PICK A DAMN PLOT AND STICK WITH IT! Sandman, green goblin, and venom. You could have made an awesome movie with any one of those villians, hell even just having two would have worked. Instead you threw all three at the wall hoping one would stick and instead killed the franchise.
Batman Begins- pretty good movie with some things out of character, but all in all a good movie.
The Dark Knight- f*#!ing awesome
whatever comes next- be afraid, be very afraid.
So I'm thinking that when it comes to superhero movies, see one if you're a fan of the hero, see 2 no matter who it is or what they got wrong with the first, and OH GOD NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO AVOID THE THIRD MOVIE, do not see it, do not rent it, do not even look at the cover art of the DVD for too long before it corrupts your soul.
And I would like to point out this:
You have the Juggernaut and Colossus in the same movie. One would think that a slobber-knocker between those two would be a no-brainer. And you have... the Juggernaut vs.... Kitty? Seriously? Kitty Pryde?
And I am a firm believer that Storm spin-punching the friggin' Juggernaut would simply result in a vaguely Ororo-shaped smear all over his armor...
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And I would like to point out this:
You have the Juggernaut and Colossus in the same movie. One would think that a slobber-knocker between those two would be a no-brainer. And you have... the Juggernaut vs.... Kitty? Seriously? Kitty Pryde?
And I am a firm believer that Storm spin-punching the friggin' Juggernaut would simply result in a vaguely Ororo-shaped smear all over his armor...
There were so many things wrong with that movie, but you knew that was gonna be the case when you heard they kicked off the original director so that the producers could hire someone who would listen to their "recomendations" and that Hale Berry would only come back if they "Increased her role".
But this isn't so much to bash the movies that wound up aweful as to talk about how the trend seems to be repeating itself over and over.
And I would like to point out this:
You have the Juggernaut and Colossus in the same movie. One would think that a slobber-knocker between those two would be a no-brainer. And you have... the Juggernaut vs.... Kitty? Seriously? Kitty Pryde?
And I am a firm believer that Storm spin-punching the friggin' Juggernaut would simply result in a vaguely Ororo-shaped smear all over his armor...
But, Kitty's power is considered one of the most powerful and dangerous powers there is. I liked the fact that she used her brain to defeat Juggernaut. Colossus would be useless in a head to head fight against Juggernaut because he is unstoppable. Whenever they defeated him, they had to use a combination of tactics to remove his helmet, most of which didn't involve trying to hit him.
Okay so I just finished watching Iron Man 2 in the theater and I friggen loved it. But as I was leaving I realized that more and more the structure is getting into a formula that I'm going to lay out.
Movie 1= origin story, usually good with some awkward moments, satisfying but bothersome in some ways.
I was having that exact conversation with a few friends this weekend. I made pretty much the same point. I liked the first Iron Man movie, but was frustrated that they were kind of confined to the structure of an origin story.
x-men 3- really?
That was pretty hard to watch. I wrote up a recap/review of the film a little while after seeing it. I got some things wrong because I forgot particular details but the sentiments were pretty raw. And I enjoyed riffing on it.
There were so many things wrong with that movie, but you knew that was gonna be the case when you heard they kicked off the original director so that the producers could hire someone who would listen to their "recomendations" and that Hale Berry would only come back if they "Increased her role".
That last bit about Halle Berry was well documented and probably true, but everything else before that was not.
Bryan Singer left because he was offered Superman Returns and took James Marsden with him. Which is why Cyclops role in X-3 was abruptly truncated and poorly handled.
Say what you want about X3, it wasnt the finish that I wanted for the series after the AWESOME X2, but at least it wasnt boring. Brett Ratner delivered what a super hero movie was supposed to be pretty much non stop action. When it comes on TV I actually watch it and enjoy it for what it is. I'll never watch Superman Returns again. It bored me to fricking tears. For me, the worst thing in the world a superhero movie can be is boring.
or the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie.
or the Justice League live action show.
Hey Shin, you seem to be a pretty big comic buff. Did you or anyone else FTM see the old Captain America movie? The one that went straight to video, I am trying to find the damn thing and am not having any luck. :/
I've seen it and maybe you not being able to find it is the comic book movie gods way of looking out for you...
The Capt America TV movies starring Reb Brown are like masterpieces in comparison.
In short, D00d it's about an hour and a half of your life that youre just NEVER going to get back. Even if you get a time machine, GO BACK IN TIME and attempt to unwatch it? The TIME LORDS OF GALLIFREY will never allow it. You will have already watched and thus scarred the space time continuum.
FOREVER.
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And I would like to point out this:
You have the Juggernaut and Colossus in the same movie. One would think that a slobber-knocker between those two would be a no-brainer. And you have... the Juggernaut vs.... Kitty? Seriously? Kitty Pryde?
I thought it was a pretty awesome way to show that quick wits and a couple of seemingly innocuous powers can win out over a big dumb brute. And really? Haven't we seen two big strong guys beating on each other in a billion other movies?
By the way, Kitty's also one of the most popular X-Men. IIRC, not too long ago she ranked #13 on Wizard's list of the best comic book characters, making her the highest rated female character. IGN named her #3 on it's list of the 25 best X-Men, behind only Cyclops and Xavier.
As for Kurt not being on the team...he didn't really have any reason to be. In X2, he found himself involved in a situation, and he helped the X-Men resolve that situation. I don't remember any scene where anyone invited him to join the team. He probably moved on with his life...it didn't stand out to me as a problem.
Besides, if you're gonna criticize the damn movie, criticize the biggest problem with it...the fact that they pointlessly threw Cyclops away, just so that they could give Wolverine even more screen time. Seriously, it's not the X-Men trilogy, it's the goddamn Wolverine and those X-Guys He Sometimes Lets Hang Out With Him trilogy.
I am all for brains over brawn situations and I have no problem with Kitty. Indeed, the 'fight' in the movie -and I use the quotes because it was not exactly a fight, but a catch-me-if-you-can situation- was a good portrayal of wits and quick thinking overcoming brute force.
But... Colossus and the Juggernaut have fought it out in the comics (I seem to recall a bar brawl of some sort?) and, although Mr. Marko would surely be the winner, it would have been a delight to watch, at least in my opinion. And exactly because it would have turned out in favor of the Juggernaut, you could then have Kitty do her thing. Hell and heck, you could have Peter and Kitty team up against the Juggernaut and as soon as brute strength, a.k.a. Colossus, failed you could have brains, a.k.a. Kitty, take over.
Of course, that is all assuming that the movie Juggernaut is at the same power levels as the comic books one. Which, having him get spin-punched by Ororo, seems to not really be the case. :-)
And I definitely agree on both the Cyclops and Wolverine points made.
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I love the bar fight. IIRC, it was just after the X-Men returned from Secret Wars. Colossus had just been a giant douche to Kitty, dumping her because he had "fallen in love" with some alien chick on Battleworld that he was never going to see again. For some reason or another, Kurt and Logan take him out to a bar. At the bar, Piotr becomes a bit drunk and starts to pick a fight with a big guy. Kurt and Logan recognize the big guy as Cain Marko. He's not engaged in any supervillain-ing at the moment, just trying to have a drink in a bar. So Kurt and Logan neglect to inform Piotr that the guy he's trying to pick a fight with is Juggernaut. Eventually, Marko squashes Piotr. Pretty damn hilarious...especially if you're a Kitty fan.
And it's thread necromancy time, because I've been waiting for more than a year to say this.
...storms spin punching juggernaught...
Storm spin-punching the friggin' Juggernaut
[Juggernaut] get spin-punched by Ororo...
Okay, I didn't remember this, and thought that I must simply have forgotten. But after more than a year, I finally had time to watch X-3 again. So listen up, people:
STORM NEVER PUNCHED JUGGERNAUT THROUGHOUT THE FILM!!!
In the scene at the Grey house (which I assume is the fight of which people were thinking) only Woverine punched Juggy. There is a deleted scene, in which Storm fries Juggy with lightning, knocking him unconscious, using Wolverine's adamantium as a conductor, but that's a far cry from simply "punching"!
The only other battle scene with Juggy in that movie was on the island, and Storm NEVER ENGAGED THE JUGGERNAUT IN COMBAT IN ANY WAY DURING THE FIGHT!!!
Ah! What a relief to get that off my chest after the last year!
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And it's thread necromancy time, because I've been waiting for more than a year to say this.
...storms spin punching juggernaught...Storm spin-punching the friggin' Juggernaut[Juggernaut] get spin-punched by Ororo...Okay, I didn't remember this, and thought that I must simply have forgotten. But after more than a year, I finally had time to watch X-3 again. So listen up, people:
STORM NEVER PUNCHED JUGGERNAUT THROUGHOUT THE FILM!!!
In the scene at the Grey house (which I assume is the fight of which people were thinking) only Woverine punched Juggy. There is a deleted scene, in which Storm fries Juggy with lightning, knocking him unconscious, using Wolverine's adamantium as a conductor, but that's a far cry from simply "punching"!
The only other battle scene with Juggy in that movie was on the island, and Storm NEVER ENGAGED THE JUGGERNAUT IN COMBAT IN ANY WAY DURING THE FIGHT!!!
Ah! What a relief to get that off my chest after the last year!
** spoiler omitted **
'Never heard of a storm punching Juggernaut scene before. Then again, I never saw this thread.
What if I just found the movie dull? The 'feel' I was looking for was not there.