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Now I know they aren't ogl as far as the 3.5 one goes but has anyone come up with a pf update for them on there own we just converted to pathfinder and a few days after I bought my books a player found a used copy complete rouge cheap and has been waiting to play her ninja as its why she bought the book I'm worried about her falling behind in the power cure any suggestions?
Now I know they aren't ogl as far as the 3.5 one goes but has anyone come up with a pf update for them on there own we just converted to pathfinder and a few days after I bought my books a player found a used copy complete rouge cheap and has been waiting to play her ninja as its why she bought the book I'm worried about her falling behind in the power cure any suggestions?
If I may, I'd like to suggest our Pathfinder class inspired in part by Ninja Assassin:
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
Multi-class a rogue/monk and take Ascetic Rogue if your DM allows it - then you have a ninja.
Multi-class a rogue/monk and take Ascetic Rogue if your DM allows it - then you have a ninja.Yeah, that's the core classes only approach. It's not really the one I would recommend to be honest, but it will get the job done.
Honestly the concept of a ninja is generally done better by something dedicated to it, either feats that help a monk be more of a ninja/assassin type, or feats/rogue talents that help a rogue be more of a ninja.
Either that or a unique base class.
Depends whose concept - after four years training at ninjitsu it's the one I'd go for :D
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Depends whose concept - after four years training at ninjitsu it's the one I'd go for :DMulti-class a rogue/monk and take Ascetic Rogue if your DM allows it - then you have a ninja.Yeah, that's the core classes only approach. It's not really the one I would recommend to be honest, but it will get the job done.
Honestly the concept of a ninja is generally done better by something dedicated to it, either feats that help a monk be more of a ninja/assassin type, or feats/rogue talents that help a rogue be more of a ninja.
Either that or a unique base class.
I'm the dm and I tried to suggest it but she vaildly pointed out if she uses a ninja like weapon the monks unarmed att bonuses are useless and she wants the ninja ghost step stuff along with some of the other class abilties also she bought the book right before we converted over and wants to use I feel bad about her investing money in something I told her if she got she could use and then telling her she can't its going back on my word so now I have to find something that I can do to make it fit
As for shadow assassian does it use the ki system as that's one of the big things for her
As for shadow assassian does it use the ki system as that's one of the big things for her
It doesn't. However, if you email me at hyrum (at) otherworlds (dot) cx I'll send you a freebie copy so you can see how it works and also show it to the player.
Sound good?
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
I'm the dm and I tried to suggest it but she vaildly pointed out if she uses a ninja like weapon the monks unarmed att bonuses are useless and she wants the ninja ghost step stuff along with some of the other class abilties
There is no class like that.
also she bought the book right before we converted over and wants to use
So use it.
As I recall, the class was a little underpowered in 3.5. So maybe upgrade their HP to the next larger die, tweak the Class Skills (3.5 had Hide and Move Silently instead of Stealth, etc.) but let them keep the same skill points per level, and then maybe review the class abilities a bit to see if they might need an upgrade. Use the monk, rogue, and shadowdancer classes in Pathfinder as examples of how the same classes were upgraded, and apply similar reasoning to the ninja.
I feel bad about her investing money in something I told her if she got she could use and then telling her she can't its going back on my word so now I have to find something that I can do to make it fit
So, if you told her she could use it, and she invested her cash, why not just let her use it? Even if there were perfect ninja classes in some Pathfinder book, or 3rd party book, using those classes won't let her use the book she already owns, right?
So let her use her book. Tweak the class to be "Pathfinderized", and everyone wins.
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I'm the dm and I tried to suggest it but she vaildly pointed out if she uses a ninja like weapon the monks unarmed att bonuses are useless and she wants the ninja ghost step stuff along with some of the other class abilties also she bought the book right before we converted over and wants to use I feel bad about her investing money in something I told her if she got she could use and then telling her she can't its going back on my word so now I have to find something that I can do to make it fit
As for shadow assassian does it use the ki system as that's one of the big things for her
Is this the D&D Ninja class she wants to use? If so I would say just let her use it, check it against the conversion guide. Also, if it is the 'Ninja' class from Wizards of the Coast I suggest giving her rogue talents perhaps every third or every 4th level. From what I understand it's a weak class.
For most purposes, a ninja is a rogue with improved unarmed attack feats and black coveralls.
Conversion should not be hard.
Otherwise--figure out what you want to do ("ninja" means a lot of different things to a different people) and build it from core. You might even get a stronger character, depending. (Frex, sneaky hidey does lots of vital attacks and can disappear in the blink of an eye? Rogue prestiging into Shadowdancer. Disciplined, silent unarmed warror? Monk, monk-rogue, or monk-assassin)
Anyone with knowledge of the Ninja class has been "eliminated." Best not to ask...
The ninja class from Complete Adventurer is OK, I suggest upgrading the hit dice to d8 and the sudden strike to full sneak attack to balance it out in Pathfinder, though.
Multi-class a rogue/monk and take Ascetic Rogue if your DM allows it - then you have a ninja.
If you are going to take 3.5 feats, why not just take 3.5 Ninja...
Change the Surprise Attack bs to Sneak Attack.
For most purposes, a ninja is a rogue with improved unarmed attack feats and black coveralls.
the black coveralls being the important aspect
Some people may think I'm nuts, but Bard makes a ninja. Use perform:dance to represent martial arts manuevers, you get stealthy skills on your list, and can use spells for stealth. Optionally, you can multiclass with some rogue.
The Ninja base class in 3.5 was kinda terrible. Replace sudden strike with normal sneak attack and its not so bad. But they get their best ninja power first with invisibility.
For most purposes, a ninja is a rogue with improved unarmed attack feats and black coveralls.the black coveralls being the important aspect
Ninjas didn't really wear black. That was only in Kabuki stage shows to differenciate them from other cast members when the character was supposed to be a Ninja.
Ninjas didn't really wear black. That was only in Kabuki stage shows to differenciate them from other cast members when the character was supposed to be a Ninja.For most purposes, a ninja is a rogue with improved unarmed attack feats and black coveralls.the black coveralls being the important aspect
I'd imagine they wore black or grey when infiltrating a structure at night, the same as modern special forces members do. Ninja were essentially feudal Japanese commando operatives - infiltrate, gather intelligence, steal important objects, take hostages, eliminate important enemies, sabotage, raid, etc.
I will toss my shamless homebrew plug here, but if she wants to use the Complete Adventurer ninja, I would suggest bumping up the HD to d8 and as others have that you change sudden strike to sneak attack. The idea that ninja's don't flank or work in teams is ridiculous.
You might also let her take some rogue talents as feats, if she is interested. Most of them are about the level of a feat.
Also some little known "facts" about ninjas. Both the black night-suit and the ninja-to are thought to be inventions of the modern age.
Ninja instead were very adept at disguises, and often went about their business dressed as samurai, buddhist monks, or just plain farmers. Being dressed up in black pajamas would have been a dead give away.
The ninja-to probably came from a technique of ninjas using shortened swords or even broken katanas in full length scabbards. The idea was to be able to draw a shorter blade faster than a longer one, when using a quickdraw strike. the extra space in the scabbard could also be used for light rope or even blinding powder. But much like the night-suit, ninja did not carry around a weapon that would give them away to the casual observer :D
despite these myths, if your ninja player gets a chance she should check out the shinobi-no-mono movies for inspiriation. Goemon poisoning Nobunaga with a string dangling from the ceiling was badass >:D
If you like, I have a Pathfinderized ninja, based on the old Complete Adventurer, found at mediafire.com/ElghinnLightbringer.
I'd imagine they wore black or grey when infiltrating a structure at night, the same as modern special forces members do. Ninja were essentially feudal Japanese commando operatives - infiltrate, gather intelligence, steal important objects, take hostages, eliminate important enemies, sabotage, raid, etc.Ninjas didn't really wear black. That was only in Kabuki stage shows to differenciate them from other cast members when the character was supposed to be a Ninja.For most purposes, a ninja is a rogue with improved unarmed attack feats and black coveralls.the black coveralls being the important aspect
They wore whatever was appropriate at the time. Black for stealth missions at night, yes. But very often they would be dressed as simple commoners - in fact they would often be simple commoners, to all intents and purposes. Most of their weapons were adapted farm tools and hunting weapons for easy concealment, or were made very easily and quickly.
I agree. Obviously they wouldn't wear black outfits in the middle of the street in broad daylight. But when creeping along a castle wall during a new moon...
There were a few traditional personas a ninja would adopt - merchant, porter (luggage carrier), monk, etc - because these were people that would attract no notice moving from province to province.
Ninja were peasants who had martially trained, which during most eras of Japan's history, was forbidden. The ninja-to is probably a real weapon from the period, either a wakazashi - which could be owned by non-samurai - with an extended grip (which, after all, was just carved wood wrapped in rayskin around the tang) or a broken and reground katana. While in its scabbard, it could be slid into gaps in castle stonework and used as a quick step up.
I agree. Obviously they wouldn't wear black outfits in the middle of the street in broad daylight. But when creeping along a castle wall during a new moon...
There were a few traditional personas a ninja would adopt - merchant, porter (luggage carrier), monk, etc - because these were people that would attract no notice moving from province to province.
Ninja were peasants who had martially trained, which during most eras of Japan's history, was forbidden. The ninja-to is probably a real weapon from the period, either a wakazashi - which could be owned by non-samurai - with an extended grip (which, after all, was just carved wood wrapped in rayskin around the tang) or a broken and reground katana. While in its scabbard, it could be slid into gaps in castle stonework and used as a quick step up.
Or a length of metal bashed out in a back-garden forge and roughly sharpened. Quality was poor, and if a ninja could get his hands on a katana his combat style could use it effectively.
The ninja traced their ancestry both to foreigners fleeing China, some of them taoists and buddhist monks, and yammabushi, former warriors taking up a hermit-like life in the mountainous areas. This melting pot gave birth to several clans with a kind of martial training and with no status in Japanese society, and most importantly, they didn't pay taxes. They became a kind of underground counter-culture to mainstream Japanese culture, and to maintain their independence they used a combination of espionage, psychological warfare and engagement by offering their skills to certain factions.
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Both the black night-suit and the ninja-to are thought to be inventions of the modern age.
My favorite explanation for the black suit was that in plays of the time, they didn't have curtains, so when a scenery change was to occur, men in all black outfits would quietly walk onto stage and remove the old set pieces and place the new ones, and it was politely accepted that these men were invisible, and 'not part of the play.' The audience would continue focusing on the speaking actors and completely ignore the stagehands working in the background.
Some clever playrunner had a story about an assassination attempt on one of the characters, and played upon that preconception by having the actors playing the assassins come onto stage in those outfits, which the audience was conditioned to ignore, and then draw blades and shout as they attacked, scaring the hell out of the audience, who was used to ignoring those figures completely.
And so the black pajamas became associated with the ninja. I have no idea if that's anything other than a cool story, but, hey, it sounds neat!
Anywho, there surest sign that there *are* ninja in Golarion is that you haven't seen any.
If you do see one, he's probably a wannabe.
Anywho, there surest sign that there *are* ninja in Golarion is that you haven't seen any.
If you do see one, he's probably a wannabe.
If you see ninja, then they aren't ninja.
If you see ninja, then they aren't ninja.Anywho, there surest sign that there *are* ninja in Golarion is that you haven't seen any.
If you do see one, he's probably a wannabe.
I do worry about going overboard with the "I'm not a ninja" RP when playing a ninja in a group of 3 other adventurers. This is a group game after all.
As for shadow assassian does it use the ki system as that's one of the big things for herIt doesn't. However, if you email me at hyrum (at) otherworlds (dot) cx I'll send you a freebie copy so you can see how it works and also show it to the player.
Sound good?
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
It's a trap. He will send you the free shadow assassin like he did to me, and you will think these guys are awesome, and order more of their products like I did. Those will be awesome, and you will keep ordering. Dont fall for the awesomeness. ;)
Seriously: This is a really neat class, and it did get me to buy more of their stuff. Keep it up Hyrum. I enjoyed it.
As for shadow assassian does it use the ki system as that's one of the big things for herIt doesn't. However, if you email me at hyrum (at) otherworlds (dot) cx I'll send you a freebie copy so you can see how it works and also show it to the player.
Sound good?
It's a trap. He will send you the free shadow assassin like he did to me, and you will think these guys are awesome, and order more of their products like I did. Those will be awesome, and you will keep ordering. Dont fall for the awesomeness. ;)
Seriously: This is a really neat class, and it did get me to buy more of their stuff. Keep it up Hyrum. I enjoyed it.
Genius Addiction is a serious propblem around here. i think we sepnd more on genius books than paizo books.
I just want to take the geniuses and... and... and SMOKE them!
From what I've heard and read about (coincidentally in a non-fiction historical book with lots of Wayne Reynolds illustrations, amongst others [I have to say I prefer his work with subjects whose bodies, equipment/clothing/armor, and weapons are all of standard proportions]), in Japanese plays and art, wearing black is a trope to symbolize "being invisible". The stagehands wearing black was probably a way to say "pay no attention to me".
I suppose I'll plug the Dorkistan conversion of Ninja, which one of my players used for several months and I've been pretty happy with.
I play a Pathfinderized ninja from the Complete Adventurer. All we did was Pathfinderize the skills and kept everything else pretty much the same.....especially the sudden strike.
Ninjas are supposed to work alone; that's why there is the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu!!! 1 ninja kicks @$$. Tons of ninjas suck @$$. So, sneak attack that benefits from flanking isn't very ninja-like.
Of course, MY ninja is a dark whisper gnome ninja, so he benefits from the Dark Creature template from Tome of Magic (averaged out to +7 racial bonus to Stealth checks AND Hide in Plain Sight! plus other goodies), +4 size bonus to Stealth, an 18 Dexterity, and 8 ranks in Stealth (+26 to Stealth checks). I think I once even used Stealth successfully while glitterdusted (-40 to stealth)....but that's because the DM rolled a 1 or 2 on his Perception check. Still, not bad.
I do worry about going overboard with the "I'm not a ninja" RP when playing a ninja in a group of 3 other adventurers. This is a group game after all.If you see ninja, then they aren't ninja.Anywho, there surest sign that there *are* ninja in Golarion is that you haven't seen any.
If you do see one, he's probably a wannabe.
I had a player in an Eberron game I ran play a changeling for a year and a half, sometimes "changing character" between adventures, and none of the other players ever suspected, and we all had great fun.
The ninja just presents himself as a rogue or a monk (works best if he has monk levels of course) and does those jobs, saving his secret ninja powers for when he needs them alone.
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I'm the dm and I tried to suggest it but she vaildly pointed out if she uses a ninja like weapon the monks unarmed att bonuses are useless and she wants the ninja ghost step stuff along with some of the other class abiltiesThere is no class like that.
also she bought the book right before we converted over and wants to useSo use it.
As I recall, the class was a little underpowered in 3.5. So maybe upgrade their HP to the next larger die, tweak the Class Skills (3.5 had Hide and Move Silently instead of Stealth, etc.) but let them keep the same skill points per level, and then maybe review the class abilities a bit to see if they might need an upgrade. Use the monk, rogue, and shadowdancer classes in Pathfinder as examples of how the same classes were upgraded, and apply similar reasoning to the ninja.
I feel bad about her investing money in something I told her if she got she could use and then telling her she can't its going back on my word so now I have to find something that I can do to make it fitSo, if you told her she could use it, and she invested her cash, why not just let her use it? Even if there were perfect ninja classes in some Pathfinder book, or 3rd party book, using those classes won't let her use the book she already owns, right?
So let her use her book. Tweak the class to be "Pathfinderized", and everyone wins.
That's what I was trying to find on here was how to tweak it I was also thinking bout making the ki feats from dragon class features
Thanks for the kind words wraithstrike and Dungeon Grrrl!
And remember folks, the first one is free.... :D
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
To answer the question of whether or not there are ninja in Pathfinder, one must merely ask Eric Mona, esteemed ninja master. But I recommend protecting one's self from garrotes, shuriken, and poison first;)
To answer the question of whether or not there are ninja in Pathfinder, one must merely ask Eric Mona, esteemed ninja master. But I recommend protecting one's self from garrotes, shuriken, and poison first;)
Too late, he's already behind you.
Inverse Ninja Law
Though depicted as nearly-invincible warriors (especially when they are the heroes of the story), ninja are often conversely depicted as disposable cannon fodder to be dispatched by the hero character, especially one who is a ninja himself. Thus, modern entertainment has shown ninja as either expendable "redshirts" attacking in large numbers, or as nearly invulnerable solitary warriors (who are often unmasked in contrast). In effect of this common approach, a single/small group of protagonist ninja may often easily defeat waves of incompetent enemy ninja on multiple occasions only to have far more trouble when facing a more competent lone ninja - this seemingly inconsistent portrayal is jokingly explained using the sarcastic "Inverse Ninja Law", (also called "conservation of ninjutsu" or the "Law of the Conservation of the Ninja") which states that ninja are weaker when they are in larger groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_Evil_Marksmanship#Inverse_Ninja_L aw.
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I suppose I'll plug the Dorkistan conversion of Ninja, which one of my players used for several months and I've been pretty happy with.
Hey thanks! I too have a player who has used that class for close to a year now. When I asked him recently how he liked the class compared to the 3.5 version, he said, "It's good, but it needs to be more like Deadpool."
If you get a chance, throw a comment up on that page so others who view can see who uses it.
Along that line of thought, LA +0 version of Dark Creepers and Dark Stalkers are *so* direly in need of making an appearance...
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Just a quick historical comment on ninja and their connection to the theatre; stagehands dressed in all black are still used in most traditional Japanese theatre, and it is a well-established convention. Bunraku puppeteers dress in the same way, with black hoods in order to hide their faces. From what I've read, the first depiction of a ninja dressed in this same black costume doesn't appear until well into the Tokugawa shogunate, when ninjas (as well as samurai and other soldiers) were rendered effectively obsolete.
...From what I've read, the first depiction of a ninja dressed in this same black costume doesn't appear until well into the Tokugawa shogunate, when ninjas (as well as samurai and other soldiers) were rendered effectively obsolete.
Nah, they just focused on gardening more ...