Are there any Spontaneous Casting versions of Paladins and Rangers? I think those might be a little bit easier for newbie players who are overwhelmed with preparing spells and then never get to cast because they chose poorly, to paraphrase the old, old, old crusader from Indiana Jones 3.
Spontaneous Ranger
LEVEL SPELLS KNOWN
1.
2.
3.
4. 2 - - -
5. 3 - - -
6. 3 - - -
7. 4 2 - -
8. 4 3 - -
9. 4 3 - -
10. 4 4 2 -
11 5 4 3 -
12. 5 4 3 -
13. 5 4 4 2
14. 5 5 4 3
15. 6 5 4 3
16. 6 5 4 4
17. 6 5 5 4
18. 6 6 5 4
19. 7 6 5 4
20. 7 6 5 5
If a ranger and/or paladin were to become a spontaneous caster, should they get more spells per day? I'm thinking maybe 1 additional per level per day.
Thoughts? Comments?
|
The Sorcerer ends with somewhere between five and three spells known (plus an additional spell for his Bloodline).
I'd be inclined to limit the spontaneous Paladin / Ranger similarly, to, say, 5 1st and 2nd level spells known at 20th, 4 3rd level spells known and 3 4th level spells known.
1. -
2. -
3. -
4. 1
5. 2
6. 3
7. 3 1
8. 3 2
9. 3 3
10. 3 3 1
11. 4 3 1
12. 4 3 2
13. 4 3 2 1
14. 4 4 2 1
15. 4 4 2 2
16. 5 4 2 2
17. 5 4 3 2
18. 5 4 4 2
19. 5 4 4 3
20. 5 5 4 3
And yeah, +1 spell / day / level of spells, to approximate the difference between the Sorcerer and Wizard. (Note that the Sorcerer has more like +2 spells / day / level of spells, but I'm not sure if this is warranted for the Paladin / Ranger...)
Every four levels the Paladin or Ranger can swap out a spell, so that he isn't frozen with the same 1st level spell choice for the rest of his life.
Having only one choice for a spell at 4th, 7th, 10th and 13th is a bit rougher than what the Sorcerer gets, but I think that flexible casting from a smaller list is probably just that much better for the Paladin or Ranger (who could still use scrolls of spells he never learned as Spells Known anyway) that it's an acceptable cost.
I'd be inclined to make similar charts for Clerics, Druids and Adepts, and allow any of them to choose at 1st level if they want to be a spontaneous caster with a fixed list of Spells Known, or a 'prayerbook' caster with access to all of their spells, but having to acquire them like a Wizard. I've never liked the idea that Clerics / Druids / etc. just get every spell, automatically, without the restrictions of a Sorcerer *or* the costs of a Wizard.
Similarly, the Bard could have a smaller spells / day list, for those Bards who want to start at first level as *prepared* casters, and keep a sheaf of spells that they've acquired from diverse sources, which they must prepare at the beginning of the day, like a Wizard. This would make for a neat 'Bard-as-Noble' concept, where the young man was tutored not only in swordplay and tactics and statesmanship and courtly etiquette and diplomacy and inspiring rhetoric and the ways of command, but also in a smattering of arcane magic.
Set: I can see lowering the maximum number of spells known, but knowing only 1 at 4th level is REALLY limiting!!!! And we (or at least I) want them to have SOME flexibility. Maybe:
1. -
2. -
3. -
4. 2
5. 3
6. 3
7. 3 2
8. 3 3
9. 4 3
10. 4 3 2
11. 4 3 3
12. 4 4 3
13. 4 4 3 2
14. 4 4 3 3
15. 5 4 3 3
16. 5 4 4 3
17. 5 5 4 3
18. 5 5 4 4
19. 5 5 5 4
20. 5 5 5 5
|
Set: I can see lowering the maximum number of spells known, but knowing only 1 at 4th level is REALLY limiting!!!! And we (or at least I) want them to have SOME flexibility. Maybe:
That just seems way too powerful and out of sync with a ranger/paladin spontaneous caster. You're seeing why they likely haven't ever done a spontaneous caster of the Paladin/Ranger persuasion.
I'm with Set on this one regarding spell advancement (if I even allowed it all).
Set: I can see lowering the maximum number of spells known, but knowing only 1 at 4th level is REALLY limiting!!!! And we (or at least I) want them to have SOME flexibility. Maybe:That just seems way too powerful and out of sync with a ranger/paladin spontaneous caster. You're seeing why they likely haven't ever done a spontaneous caster of the Paladin/Ranger persuasion.
I'm with Set on this one regarding spell advancement (if I even allowed it all).
What makes you think that is so powerful? I'm not trying to make it powerful, but kind of easier and less overwhelming for an inexperienced player to choose and use spells in play.
In context, the party is made up of a 9th level catfolk ranger, a 9th level chaos gnome brass dragon shaman (me), and a feral kobold battle sorcerer (red dragon bloodline), with occasional back-up PCs: dark whisper gnome ninja (me) and mineral warrior half-orc druid.
If your intent is to 'free' them from poor choices, dont you think spontaneous casters with their spells known is a bad way to go about it? While you may not get to use a spell because you did not properly determine what you would need with preped spells, a poor choice in spells known is actually significantly more limiting. That poor choice stays with you for a long, long time (or forever depending on whether or not you allow the relearning mechanic for the ranger and paladin). A poor choice in preped spells is just a day long problem.
As for power, I think you are giving them quite a bit of it. The sorceror never has more spells known then he can cast. A paladin starts with 0 spells per day at level 4. Knowing two spells for that 0 per day (and thus only based on bonus spells) is over much. And it doesnt follow the kind of progression that the sorceror does where he generally has more spell slots then he has spells known.
If your intent is to 'free' them from poor choices, dont you think spontaneous casters with their spells known is a bad way to go about it? While you may not get to use a spell because you did not properly determine what you would need with preped spells, a poor choice in spells known is actually significantly more limiting. That poor choice stays with you for a long, long time (or forever depending on whether or not you allow the relearning mechanic for the ranger and paladin). A poor choice in preped spells is just a day long problem.
As for power, I think you are giving them quite a bit of it. The sorceror never has more spells known then he can cast. A paladin starts with 0 spells per day at level 4. Knowing two spells for that 0 per day (and thus only based on bonus spells) is over much. And it doesnt follow the kind of progression that the sorceror does where he generally has more spell slots then he has spells known.
I was basing this on the 3.5 bard, which DID have more spells known than he could cast....but he was also a secondary spellcaster, like the ranger and/or paladin. When the bard could cast 0 spells (or just bonus spells), he knew 2. When he got 1, he knew 3.
I do not see the benefit for newb players, this way they get stuck with spells they chose poorly. I do like the spontaneous caster for paladins better though, and possibly rangers.
I was basing this on the 3.5 bard, which DID have more spells known than he could cast....but he was also a secondary spellcaster, like the ranger and/or paladin. When the bard could cast 0 spells (or just bonus spells), he knew 2. When he got 1, he knew 3.If your intent is to 'free' them from poor choices, dont you think spontaneous casters with their spells known is a bad way to go about it? While you may not get to use a spell because you did not properly determine what you would need with preped spells, a poor choice in spells known is actually significantly more limiting. That poor choice stays with you for a long, long time (or forever depending on whether or not you allow the relearning mechanic for the ranger and paladin). A poor choice in preped spells is just a day long problem.
As for power, I think you are giving them quite a bit of it. The sorceror never has more spells known then he can cast. A paladin starts with 0 spells per day at level 4. Knowing two spells for that 0 per day (and thus only based on bonus spells) is over much. And it doesnt follow the kind of progression that the sorceror does where he generally has more spell slots then he has spells known.
I understand where you are coming from, but the bard doesn't have a non-spontaneous alterego to compare to.
In the case of the paladin it makes him a better more flexible character, I'd consider to replace the channel energy ability with a combat feat as part of a package deal and allow spontaneous casting with spells known 2 more than what he can memorize.