Okey, my second RotRL group got through of Seven sawmill yesterday. Session went well, I enjoyed and players had fun. Only thing that bothers me is that two players had argument over what to do with cultists that they won. Ranger [CG] wanted to leave them die and got angry when celestial sorcerer/cleric of Saranrae [NG] wanted to stop their bleeding so let them be alive. Ranger justified his doings saying that he wanted revenge to this cultists who have done lots of evil to citizen of Magnimar. Cleric wanted to leave punishment to the Magnimar's Court which is well-working system [as I have told them when they first came in Magnimar long time ago].
In my point of view they both are playing as their aligment says. Still that argument over this topic wasn't all roleplaying, more like players arguing with each other. What do you say about this? Are they acting as they should and that is ok or is there something that I should mention to this two players about this case later on?
Second question is about law in Magnimar and what might have happened IF players had left those cultists to die? In my games too often players actions are overlooked by authority because "they are doing their best to stop evil". I understand that goblins and other monsters are left to die but humans and other "civilized" races are different because there is law that proctects them. Even criminals have some rights so I think that PCs shouldn't just slaughter everyone which they don't want to interrogate [which is main reason to left someone alive in first place BEFORE actions described above].
I want to hear your opinion about these two questions/situations. These kind of problems are new to me because these characters tied themselves to Justice Ironbriar and worked under him [not knowing about his role with cult before yesterday of course] but Ironbriar didn't write a note or anything in official records about PCs. So no good basis to "we were working for the city". And of course I'm curious to hear what you would have done. ^^
Someone? Please?
Ask if you are not sure what I mean with those questions, english isn't my native language so misunderstandings might happen.
All to often my players go with the burn-n-pillage solution to things.
Regarding the problem you state: it is hard to track down culprits without a significant show of force/magic/witnesses - but if some citizens (or especially guards) catch them red-handed, then you shouldn't be shy of letting the full extent of the law come down on them. But, in reverse, unless the player characters have good evidence it is possible that the people they bring to court can walk out free again.
Naturally it wouldn't be difficult for Justice Ironbriar to have a all the means and resources at hand to put legal proceedings in place against the party (even while appearing to have only their well-being at heart).
Personally, I like to add small incentives to the party/characters to not play in an excessively murderous manner. This can be in the form of rewards and favors from NPCs - as well as opportunity to gain personalized feats/flavors/traits.
Your Magnimar is very much like my Magnimar, modern and civilised. I was lucky that one of my PCs was a Knight, and a member of the Magnimar watch. They broke into the Seven Sawmill, much to the Knights disapproval, and after the event, the Knight got demoted and a yelling to by the watch captain (he spent two days in the pub after that)
Simply put, cut their rewards. The main reward of Skinsaw is the big bag o'cash that the Mayor gives them when he discovers his life was in danger. Simply have the watch captain or commander step in and convince the Mayor to redirect some of that reward to city funding (cos the watch had to clear up the mess)
Once the players realised that they've been hit in the wallet, they'll be more careful :)
When it comes to the court system, I can see making a good case for killing all the cultists since the leader of the sect was a high ranking official in the Magnimar courts. I was playing a LN character and finding out that the court system might be the corrupt actually made him more violent against the Skinsaws.
Thanks for answers. Maybe I should have been more clear in the first post, my players didn't kill any of the cultists [but instead Nualia and Tsuto who were with Ironbriar were left to die because they didn't want to see them never again] so I don't have to "punish" them about slaying 10+ citizen of Magnimar. On the other hand I want to reward the cleric because I liked what he did. Other two players will get some goods either now or later when they do something like that.
Maybe I'll add something crucial in Xanesha's nest that really shows that PCs weren't wrong and proves that to Justices who don't like them. Not all Justices couldn't believe that Ironbriar is leader of the cult so in silence they blamed PCs about everything. Why PCs know this? One captain of the Magnimar watch [one who encountered them after sawmill and arrested them] beleives them but can't really do anything against Justices or Hellknights who are interested about what is happening [PCs don't like hellknight]. I managed to create good political problems but solving them validly isn't so easy that I though.
I want to run a Court scene where PCs are witnesses and that cleans their name in eyes of Magnimars higher ups so adding some evidences and they are forced to tell the truth under some spells. Evethough I hate spells that make someone tell the truth/tells if someone is evil/etc.
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About the Ranger/Cleric disagreement:
That's a people problem, and probably something that should be discussed in private with both of them separately first. Simply asking them if this is a personal thing which is a middle ground can't be found or if they are just being a bit over-zelous in their role-play.
It's entirely possible that they are not aware of how intense their arguement was getting and it just looked "worse" than they thought it was.
About what might happen if the PCs left the cultists to die:
I always pull reference from historical information to flavor Fantasy games in this way, so I would point back to the general sense that justices in most cities would definitely bring them to some sort of court. If they could prove that the cultists were the killers they are, then the killing would be judged appropriate and in self-defense. My understanding is that these things were usually judged by the morality of the day and the judge's opinion rather than strict adherence to laws as present day courts would.
They still would get some kind of stiff fine for not going through the town guard, for two reasons: 1) They can't have people think they can go around skirting their authority, or worse yet, that they have to in order for justice to be had (regardless of whether that is true) and 2) Fines equal money in the coffers - never a bad thing for the city.
About clearing the PCs and Court gaming:
Module-wise - the encoded ledger/journal of Ironbriar's should help clear their name. Being a Justice, I'm sure his handwriting could be matched with official records if there are doubters.
Game-wise - I once ran an inquisition where I made up the inquiry board as a set of NPCs. I put their name, a brief two sentence description of their physical look and general disposition, and a set of bullet points describing something about their opinion on this matter, how important it is to them, outside interests they may have, etc.
When everyone got there, I handed these cards out to the players and lined them up across the table from the one being grilled. I ran the lead inquisitor, who could overrule each of the members, and generally set most of the questions to the PC. They switched out cards as each party member was brought forward individually. It's rather entertaining to watch each player in the hot-seat.
The cards were all meant to give each person a basic understanding of how the inquisitor would approach this inquiry. It can be a great time to introduce NPCs which may play a part later, and perhaps create a fantastic Foil or Ally in the city.
Justice Cragsholm
A thin, severe looking man. He has been a Justice for many years, and speaks in a slow, deliberate manner.
* Has a long history of being cautious and well-reasoned.
* This is an election year, so he is especially interested in showing that he is not a voice that gets lost in the crowd.
* Had a dim view of Justice Ironbriar, so there is no real sympathy for him or those with him.
* Gets annoyed when interrupted.
Thank you all you really helped me out. We had our last Skinsaw Murders session yesterday [almost last of whole campaing because of certain Mrs. X] and things went really smoothly. Lord Justice Argentine wanted to meet heroes and they told him about Xanesha and he told them that they managed to break Ironbriar to told them how things were. I'm planning to reward the cleric of Saranrae with Magic Knack trait [multi-class caster, he will like it] and tell other players that this is what I want to see. Cool roleplaying and "play by your aligment" scenes.