I'm looking for advice on how to build a mostly-core archer.
I am interested in taking on the challenge of creating an archer that is at least reasonably powerful (not overpowered) while sticking to mostly core SRD rules. A few non-core elements here and there are not going to kill me but I want to stick as close to core as I can and still have a character who is not utterly teh suq.
One other stipulation - I don't want to go down the path of Cleric Archer. I understand that one can use cleric buffs to become awesome at virtually anything. I've done that with another character - no need to do it again with this one.
Any thoughts on the issue would be greatly appreciated.
Shannon
I would suggest looking into the DPR Olympics thread and the Ranger vs. Fighter threads for useful information.
I would suggest looking into the DPR Olympics thread and the Ranger vs. Fighter threads for useful information.
Thanks for that suggestion. I took a look at them but they're both Pathfinder-specific threads. This is for a D&D 3.5 character so much of the discussion in those threads is not going to work since they refer to PF-specific feats like Deadly Aim. But I'll try to glean what I can from those discussions.
I'm looking for advice on how to build a mostly-core archer.
I am interested in taking on the challenge of creating an archer that is at least reasonably powerful (not overpowered) while sticking to mostly core SRD rules. A few non-core elements here and there are not going to kill me but I want to stick as close to core as I can and still have a character who is not utterly teh suq.
One other stipulation - I don't want to go down the path of Cleric Archer. I understand that one can use cleric buffs to become awesome at virtually anything. I've done that with another character - no need to do it again with this one.
Any thoughts on the issue would be greatly appreciated.
Shannon
I'd recommend a straight up high dex Ftr or Ftr/Rog with a composite longbow/repeating heavy crossbow. Feat wise go for the Multishot/Rapid shot chain plus Weapon focus & specialisation. The non-core feat Improved precise shot from Complete Warrior eliminates the -2 penalty. Taking Improved Initiative to catch opponents flat footed for a sneak attack the 1st round can be devestating.
Weapon wise - I'd load the weapon with bonuses and additional fire/acid/etc damage and stock up on every single bane arrow you can lay your hands on.
Mounted archery can also increase your options in combat as you can make a full attack and move at your mount's speed with a free action DC 5 ride check
I'm looking for advice on how to build a mostly-core archer.
I am interested in taking on the challenge of creating an archer that is at least reasonably powerful (not overpowered) while sticking to mostly core SRD rules. A few non-core elements here and there are not going to kill me but I want to stick as close to core as I can and still have a character who is not utterly teh suq.
One other stipulation - I don't want to go down the path of Cleric Archer. I understand that one can use cleric buffs to become awesome at virtually anything. I've done that with another character - no need to do it again with this one.
Any thoughts on the issue would be greatly appreciated.
Shannon
I'd recommend a straight up high dex Ftr or Ftr/Rog with a composite longbow/repeating heavy crossbow. Feat wise go for the Multishot/Rapid shot chain plus Weapon focus & specialisation. The non-core feat Improved precise shot from Complete Warrior eliminates the -2 penalty. Taking Improved Initiative to catch opponents flat footed for a sneak attack the 1st round can be devestating.
Weapon wise - I'd load the weapon with bonuses and additional fire/acid/etc damage and stock up on every single bane arrow you can lay your hands on.
Mounted archery can also increase your options in combat as you can make a full attack and move at your mount's speed with a free action DC 5 ride check
I agree (btw, he means Improved Rapid Shot). I'd split it right down the middle, half Ftr half Rog. Keep up your stealth skills, and go for invisibility (improved as soon as you can); use wands with Use Magic Device. Although, if you can use non-core, there are a few swift Ranger spells in the Complete books (and the Spell Compendium) that make archery kickass.
I agree (btw, he means Improved Rapid Shot). I'd split it right down the middle, half Ftr half Rog. Keep up your stealth skills, and go for invisibility (improved as soon as you can); use wands with Use Magic Device. Although, if you can use non-core, there are a few swift Ranger spells in the Complete books (and the Spell Compendium) that make archery kickass.
Oops! My bad. You're totally right of course. That's what I get for posting after a glass of wine on a Friday eve (UK time that is)
Oops! My bad. You're totally right of course. That's what I get for posting after a glass of wine on a Friday eve (UK time that is)
I agree (btw, he means Improved Rapid Shot). I'd split it right down the middle, half Ftr half Rog. Keep up your stealth skills, and go for invisibility (improved as soon as you can); use wands with Use Magic Device. Although, if you can use non-core, there are a few swift Ranger spells in the Complete books (and the Spell Compendium) that make archery kickass.
It's a bit late, but......CHEERS!
Not even the best archer can be sure of staying out of a foe's reach (oversized foes, tentacles, teleporters/fast movers, etc.).
Unless you can find the equivalent ability in another form, I would suggest a two-level dip into the Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class (C. Warrior) to gain the Close Combat Shot class ability. This allows you to use your bow even in melee, _without provoking attacks of opportunity_. The class pre-requisites are feats which an archer should be taking anyway (so no wasted feats), there is no loss in the BAB, and it gives a good boost to the Will and Reflex saves. While the HD are "only" d8, that is survivable for a mere two levels.
I've heard that an equivalent ability can be obtained through a Ranger spell, but (personally) I prefer to have it as an ever-present class ability (which can't be dispelled, etc.).
Some people argue against any further levels in the Bow Initiate class. YMMV.
Not even the best archer can be sure of staying out of a foe's reach (oversized foes, tentacles, teleporters/fast movers, etc.).
Unless you can find the equivalent ability in another form, I would suggest a two-level dip into the Order of the Bow Initiate prestige class (C. Warrior) to gain the Close Combat Shot class ability. This allows you to use your bow even in melee, _without provoking attacks of opportunity_. The class pre-requisites are feats which an archer should be taking anyway (so no wasted feats), there is no loss in the BAB, and it gives a good boost to the Will and Reflex saves. While the HD are "only" d8, that is survivable for a mere two levels.
I've heard that an equivalent ability can be obtained through a Ranger spell, but (personally) I prefer to have it as an ever-present class ability (which can't be dispelled, etc.).
Some people argue against any further levels in the Bow Initiate class. YMMV.
IMO leveling in OBI is still worth it because the Ranged Precision ability is eventually 5d8. Even though its only one shot (Standard Action), it is more than Sneak Attack and doesn't require the loss of Dex to work. That's pretty cool. You could play up the mobility aspect of the archer with that ability by doing Shot on the Run a lot.
However, the class has stiff competition from Ranger or even Fighter, so....this is what my group is using:
CLOSE COMBAT SHOT
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Close Combat Specialist, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you make ranged attacks while threatened.
CLOSE COMBAT SPECIALIST
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You get a +4 dodge bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity provoked when you perform a distracting act. Only distracting acts that take a free action, a move action, a standard action, or a swift action may benefit from this feat. A condition that makes you lose your Dex bonus to AC (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
Dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Now, before you get all crazy, let me point out a couple things.
First, the prereqs are a bit stiff; that's to avoid the appearance of favoritism, as it is my PC who benefits most from this house rule.
Second, yes.....the Close Combat Specialist feat would allow a caster to get the +4 bonus to AC for casting while threatened. That is why the specification that it does not apply to 'distracting acts' that take a full round or more, to avoid abuse. But, you'll be casting defensively anyway, so you won't even draw an AoO, so it doesn't really matter.
I think you could probably drop the Close Combat Specialist feat altogether, the other prereqs and the fact that Close Combat Shot would only apply to ranged weapons are enough. YMMV Enjoy.
You know, I almost forgot the other feats we came up with that relate to this:
CLOSE COMBAT CASTING
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Close Combat Specialist, Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +6, caster level 11th.
Benefit: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when you cast spells while threatened.
GREATER CLOSE COMBAT SHOT
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Close Combat Shot, Close Combat Specialist, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, base attack bonus +16.
Benefit: When wielding a ready ranged weapon (including ranged weapons that require a free action to load) you can make a single attack of opportunity against any creature that performs a distracting act that normally provokes attacks of opportunity. The target must be within point blank range (normally 30 feet), and you must have line of effect to the target.
Special: You can't make more than one ranged attack of opportunity in a round, even if you are normally allowed extra attacks of opportunity.