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Here is a revision I did based on the feedback from my last posting. I changed the class abilities around and modified some of them. I do not have an idea for a capstone yet.
Spell Lists (raw first version):
Resistance
Acid Splash
Detect Magic
Daze
Flare
Light
Ray of Frost
Guidance
Mending
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Command
Grease
Mount
Obscuring Mist
True Strike
Burning Hands
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Color Spray
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Ray of Enfeeblement
Enlarge Person
Reduce Person
Feather Fall
Expeditious Retreat
Jump
Magic Weapon
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
Acid Arrow
Bull's Strength
Glitterdust
Web
See Invisible
Daze Monster
Touch of Idiocy
Bear's Endurance
Darkness
Gust of Wind
Scorching Ray
Shatter
Blur
mirror Image
Blindness/Deafness
False Life
Ghoul Touch
Cat's Grace
Dispel Magic
Protection from Energy
Phantom Steed
Sleet Storm
Deep Slumber
Heroism
Hold Person
Rage
Daylight
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Displacement
Ray of Exhaustion
Vampiric Touch
Blink
Flame Arrow
Haste
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Slow
Dimensional Anchor
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Stoneskin
Dimension Door
Solid Fog
Confusion
Crushing Despair
Fire Shield
Ice Storm
Shout
Phantasmal Killer
Bestow Curse
Contagion
Enervation
Fear
Death Ward
Poison
Enlarge Person, Mass
Reduce Person, Mass
Freedom of Movement
Break Enchantment
Cloudkill
Dismissal
Teleport
Telepathic Bond
Dominate Person
Feeblemind
Hold Monster
Cone of Cold
Nightmare
Symbol of Pain
Waves of Fatigue
Baleful Polymorph
Passwall
Polymorph
Telekinisis
Command, Greater
Spell Resistance
True Seeing
Symbol of Sleep
Antimagic Field
Dispel Magic, Greater
Globe of Invulnerability
Acid Fog
Heroism, Greater
Chain Lightning
Forceful Hand
Freezing Sphere
Circle of Death
Eyebite
Symbol of Fear
Bull's Strength, Mass
Bear's Endurance, Mass
Cat's Grace, Mass
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
Transformation
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I actually really like this class. (It's better balanced than Tome of Secrets, that's for sure.) Seems like everything works well, and the abilities are well in line with what many people would like.
I do have a couple of suggestions, though.
1)The duration of Enhanced Mage Armor isn't clear. Is it level+charisma modifier... minutes? Hours? I actually feel that Hours would be more appropriate for the character type, and wouldn't really unbalance the class in any way.
2)Charisma-based casting I don't REALLY like, but I could homerule it as being Int-based, so it doesn't really matter.
3)I've always thought that one of the coolest things about a "gish" class was how maneuverable it can become. That said, I really don't like the full-round action requirement of the "Charged Blade" ability. I would say, make it a standard action (or even attack action, to ensure that you can't stack, say, Vital Strike with it), but limit it to 1st-3rd level spells. Maybe at later levels allow higher level spells as a full-round action.
Keep in mind that these are my opinions, and I mean for them to be constructive. I'd really like to playtest the class, but that may not happen for some time. We'll see :P.
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3)I've always thought that one of the coolest things about a "gish" class was how maneuverable it can become. That said, I really don't like the full-round action requirement of the "Charged Blade" ability. I would say, make it a standard action (or even attack action, to ensure that you can't stack, say, Vital Strike with it), but limit it to 1st-3rd level spells. Maybe at later levels allow higher level spells as a full-round action.
Hmm. That would be an awkward mechanic. Since it is limited to a fairly low x/day, I can't see the harm in having it a standard action across the board. Changing it to that.
I'm afraid I'd dump the IMproved Mage Armor for Arcane Armor training. mage armor is MUCH better then wearing chain mail. If you want to make it useful, just say he automatically adds a +1 Enhancement bonus to his chosen suit of armor every 4 levels starting at level 2, or something. Remember, you're a gish class, and mage armor is for mages who can't wear armor. No need to borrow a PrC ability. With this abiilty, you basically need no armor prof.
If you must, you can give him a bonus when he CASTS mage armor, at the most. I'd actually leave that for a feat that wizards can take, tho.
Secondly, the bonus to the weapon is okay, just make sure the max bonus on the weapon is still 5/10.
Skill points should not exceed that of a Fighter or wizard.
This class could be spontaneous or wizardly. It might be interesting to give the PC the choice.
Same number of spells on the list as the bard?
I'd hand them Arcane strike as a bonus feat somewhere.
The Sudden QUicken feat, usable through his sword with touch spells, would make another nice class ability. Bonus feats could and should take a hint from the war mage and center on the sudden feats, which don't cost spell levels.
Boosting the SR punch of his touch spells with his weapon enhancement could be a nice effect.
==Aelryinth
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I was trying to take spells that would be useful for the build, but did not step on the toes of a sorcerer/wizard. Some spells are their domain and should stay with only them. The 0 level list is very thin. That's also why the lists are about 6 spells less than a bard's (20 total vs 26/27). This is also the first run at the list. This class could definitely make use of new spells unique to the class.
Wow, this class looks REALLY good. Also has a much better, less clunky feel to a conversion of duskblade.
For Cantrips, do you think you might want to include Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, and Read Magic? If not, what is the general criteria you're using for spell selection?
Also, I assume you're just interested in spells currently in published Pathfinder products. The general guidelines for your spell selection would also probably help DMs who want to include spells from the 3.5 Spell Compendium (or new spells in upcoming PF products)...
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- There is some armor redundancy with the ability and armor prof.
- the spell list is close to the number for bards, slightly shorter
- little wary about adding free feats. there are few levels where some class power isn't increasing.
I'm afraid I'd dump the IMproved Mage Armor for Arcane Armor training. mage armor is MUCH better then wearing chain mail. If you want to make it useful, just say he automatically adds a +1 Enhancement bonus to his chosen suit of armor every 4 levels starting at level 2, or something. Remember, you're a gish class, and mage armor is for mages who can't wear armor. No need to borrow a PrC ability. With this abiilty, you basically need no armor prof.
If you must, you can give him a bonus when he CASTS mage armor, at the most. I'd actually leave that for a feat that wizards can take, tho.
Secondly, the bonus to the weapon is okay, just make sure the max bonus on the weapon is still 5/10.
Skill points should not exceed that of a Fighter or wizard.
This class could be spontaneous or wizardly. It might be interesting to give the PC the choice.
Same number of spells on the list as the bard?
I'd hand them Arcane strike as a bonus feat somewhere.
The Sudden QUicken feat, usable through his sword with touch spells, would make another nice class ability. Bonus feats could and should take a hint from the war mage and center on the sudden feats, which don't cost spell levels.
Boosting the SR punch of his touch spells with his weapon enhancement could be a nice effect.
==Aelryinth
I like the class, but have a few comments:
You get medium armor prof, but are just going to be casting the improved mage armor and using it all day.
Imbuning the weapon is a swift action, so it can't be used with Arcane Strike.
I would keep the ability to cast a spell and attack. I would make it not provoke an AoO. Also, a good capstone might be to let him do it with a full attack.
I think this is what a lot of people are looking for.
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I like the class, but have a few comments:
You get medium armor prof, but are just going to be casting the improved mage armor and using it all day.
Imbuning the weapon is a swift action, so it can't be used with Arcane Strike.
I would keep the ability to cast a spell and attack. I would make it not provoke an AoO. Also, a good capstone might be to let him do it with a full attack.
I think this is what a lot of people are looking for.
- I will be removing the medium armor prof. The light should suffice for early levels between the spell ability duration.
- Turning on the imbuing is a swift action. Once it is up, then arcane strike could be used. Essentially, arcane strike would be usable on the 2nd consecutive round.
- The Charged Blade feature does not provoke AoO as I have it written
- That's a good idea for a capstone. The class could use Charged blade on each attack of a full round action, essentially giving 3 attacks and 3 spells per round at level 20. It sounds powerful, but you really have only 2 rounds a day that you could do that.
The weapon imbuning should follow the same rule as the Paladin regarding +5/+10. The rule for that, as far as I can tell based off of the Divine Bond over 9000 thread and the Bane clarification thread was that it was up to the GM until they have an official clarification. Josh and James seem to be at a slight disagreement on this.
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1- They can't do everything a wizard/sorcerer can do. As I said in the first post, it was a first run as a scanned the spell list. I wanted to leave certain spells to the full caster classes so as not to step on toes. For example, the full illusion spells (minor/major/programmed) I think are best left to the full caster class and bards.
2- The mechanic is very rough. The vision was expending the spell through the weapon. I would think you'd have to actually hit to make this particular power work. I will have to looks through the spell list again and try and see how the spells there would interact with the ability
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The weapon imbuning should follow the same rule as the Paladin regarding +5/+10. The rule for that, as far as I can tell based off of the Divine Bond over 9000 thread and the Bane clarification thread was that it was up to the GM until they have an official clarification. Josh and James seem to be at a slight disagreement on this.
I was wondering if it should be specifically separate from that limit by renaming the enhancement to something else.
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I like this version of the class much better than the previous version you developed. The Charged Blade ability makes those touch spells far more useful, as they should be to a martially inclined spellcaster.
I too want to reiterate my general dislike of the mage armor-esque ability though. A martial/mu character should be wearing armor and the class abilities should help facilitate this if possible. The mage-armor ability if anything will discourage the use of armor, which I think you want to avoid. Not sure what you'd want to replace it with though.
The spell list is much better and the powers feel a lot less overpowered than they did before. I'm still not entirely sure with the concentration ability. I'm not a fan of making concentration too trivial, and since his charged blade ability prevents AoOs when casting, it may not be required, or may need adaptation somehow.
I like the class and the abilities, but I'd be looking for different things in a spell list if I were to play a fighter/mage. I'd look for things that enhance my movement, and gives more opportunities for "tactical" combats. Things like levitation, spider climb and invisibility would be top priority for a fighter/mage I'd play. Jump and expedious retreat are there, and nice, but I'd like a little more expansion on that part. Like the drow in whatever-salvatore-book-it-is, that levitates among the stalactites in a cave, dropping down upon dwarves as they pass. That kind of warrior magic is my taste :3
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In a finished form, the class would need several new spells unique to the class that take advantage of the casting with weapon somatics. I will have to give those a think. The spell list does need soem tuning. Trying to balance things useful with the class without removing the need for a full arcane caster in the party. I don't think any class should trivialize another.
Also, correct about the concentration. may change it to combat casting as a bonus feat or a static bonus at level 1.
In a finished form, the class would need several new spells unique to the class that take advantage of the casting with weapon somatics. I will have to give those a think. The spell list does need soem tuning. Trying to balance things useful with the class without removing the need for a full arcane caster in the party. I don't think any class should trivialize another.
Also, correct about the concentration. may change it to combat casting as a bonus feat or a static bonus at level 1.
Maybe add as a special ability that at certain levels, he may choose a single spell from the wiz/sor list to add to his spells? He's only casting up to 6th level spells, so can't in any way outshine the full arcane, but since people want different types of arcane fighter, that should give it a bit more versatility.
I like this version of the class much better than the previous version you developed. The Charged Blade ability makes those touch spells far more useful, as they should be to a martially inclined spellcaster.
I too want to reiterate my general dislike of the mage armor-esque ability though. A martial/mu character should be wearing armor and the class abilities should help facilitate this if possible. The mage-armor ability if anything will discourage the use of armor, which I think you want to avoid. Not sure what you'd want to replace it with though.
The spell list is much better and the powers feel a lot less overpowered than they did before. I'm still not entirely sure with the concentration ability. I'm not a fan of making concentration too trivial, and since his charged blade ability prevents AoOs when casting, it may not be required, or may need adaptation somehow.
I share your concern with the mage armor but have to say I really like the concentration benefit. In my experience, with combat casting your still looking at 50/50s to cast defensively your highest level spells with a full caster. Like the Bard, this guy wont be maxing his casting stat, thus putting him at a lower probablity. I think this puts him back where it should be.
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Maybe add as a special ability that at certain levels, he may choose a single spell from the wiz/sor list to add to his spells? He's only casting up to 6th level spells, so can't in any way outshine the full arcane, but since people want different types of arcane fighter, that should give it a bit more versatility.In a finished form, the class would need several new spells unique to the class that take advantage of the casting with weapon somatics. I will have to give those a think. The spell list does need soem tuning. Trying to balance things useful with the class without removing the need for a full arcane caster in the party. I don't think any class should trivialize another.
Also, correct about the concentration. may change it to combat casting as a bonus feat or a static bonus at level 1.
That could work. Add a few "free selection" spells.
Maybe add as a special ability that at certain levels, he may choose a single spell from the wiz/sor list to add to his spells? He's only casting up to 6th level spells, so can't in any way outshine the full arcane, but since people want different types of arcane fighter, that should give it a bit more versatility.In a finished form, the class would need several new spells unique to the class that take advantage of the casting with weapon somatics. I will have to give those a think. The spell list does need soem tuning. Trying to balance things useful with the class without removing the need for a full arcane caster in the party. I don't think any class should trivialize another.
Also, correct about the concentration. may change it to combat casting as a bonus feat or a static bonus at level 1.
Perhaps the ability to take a new spell from the wizard/sorc list instead of a feat
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The problem I have with combat casting is that it's DC is very high compared to just sucking it up and taking some damage. If what you are fighting is weak, its better to just take a chance and get hit for a few points. Isn't the DC 10+damage? If getting that spell off means dropping an enemy, then i'd rather do that than failing a defensive cast and standing there failing a check.
I share your concern with the mage armor but have to say I really like the concentration benefit. In my experience, with combat casting your still looking at 50/50s to cast defensively your highest level spells with a full caster. Like the Bard, this guy wont be maxing his casting stat, thus putting him at a lower probablity. I think this puts him back where it should be.I like this version of the class much better than the previous version you developed. The Charged Blade ability makes those touch spells far more useful, as they should be to a martially inclined spellcaster.
I too want to reiterate my general dislike of the mage armor-esque ability though. A martial/mu character should be wearing armor and the class abilities should help facilitate this if possible. The mage-armor ability if anything will discourage the use of armor, which I think you want to avoid. Not sure what you'd want to replace it with though.
The spell list is much better and the powers feel a lot less overpowered than they did before. I'm still not entirely sure with the concentration ability. I'm not a fan of making concentration too trivial, and since his charged blade ability prevents AoOs when casting, it may not be required, or may need adaptation somehow.
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I wonder if it would be better to replace the Mage Armor ability with an Armor Augment ability that complimented the Weapon Augment. Use the same basic function and give both the +5/+10 cap restriction. Start it at level 2 maybe. Would have to work in some ways to lower the ASF gradually.
Idea....
Included with the armor augment is a 5% drop in ASF for every +1 available. That would net 25% at the top levels. This could stack with arcane armor training and mastery. This way someone could be casting in full plate and large shield and have a decently low ASF if they blew a swift action
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How is this?
Augment Armor:Starting at level 4, the Phantom Blade gains a +1 augment bonus to his armor. This ability can either increase the enhancement bonus or allow him to choose an armor ability from the Armor Augment table. This bonus is selected at the beginning of the day. In addition, the arcane spell failure chance is reduced by 5%. Every 4 levels beyond, the bonus increases +1 and the arcane spell failure decreases 5%( +1 augment bonus, -25% arcane spell failure at 20). This ability can be combined with Arcane Armor Proficiency and Arcane Armor Mastery.
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This sounds promising. I might suggest giving the class the option of either this Augment Armor ability or the Improved Mage Armor ability you designed previously. I just like the idea of different warrior-mages focusing on different styles of combat (the mage armor one being more helpful for one who focuses on deception (I'm not a warrior!), who doesn't want to take the armor check penalties to climb, stealth, etc., who deals with lots of incorporeal threats, who may be multiclassing to druid, etc...).How is this?
Augment Armor:Starting at level 4, the Phantom Blade gains a +1 augment bonus to his armor. This ability can either increase the enhancement bonus or allow him to choose an armor ability from the Armor Augment table. This bonus is selected at the beginning of the day. In addition, the arcane spell failure chance is reduced by 5%. Every 4 levels beyond, the bonus increases +1 and the arcane spell failure decreases 5%( +1 augment bonus, -25% arcane spell failure at 20). This ability can be combined with Arcane Armor Proficiency and Arcane Armor Mastery.
Yeah. Could be a selection like Arcane Bond chosen at 1st level. You choose the manifestation type whether a arcane suit of armor or a boosting of real armor
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1 - The enhancement would be set for the day during the "preparation time" and be on the whole day.
2 - I was wanting them to be an "augment bonus" so they did not interact with the enhancement bonus and did not fall into the +5/+10 rules. By 20, the rule really cripples this ability. The would have to see how the armor one would be effected, thought I really don't thing another +5 is going to break the game.
3A - I should maybe name it "Spellstrike" since that more accurately describes it. a simultaneous cast and strike. IT seems it may be an awkward mechanic. Now that I think I would say your spell would be cast regardless if you hit or miss, but if it is a targeted attack spell (like shocking grasp) you would need at least a touch hit rolled.
4 - I was going to try to add something like that. Maybe like a 1d3 round penalty to SR or something. Also, I could add that to the augment weapon table. Like very short duration debuffs to certain elements or defenses.
****
Regarding disarmed, I think my naming convention is flawed since the blade isn't actually holding a spell for anything more than a moment. IT would need an immediate interrupt attack to disarm it while it had a spell
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1- I was going to have the armor augment be set at the beginning of each day.
2- I was going to give them a new name of "Augment Bonus" so it would not be effected by the +5/+10 cap. I am unsure how that would effect balance, but I can't see +5 for up to 2 minutes breaking a game.
3- I think I named it wrong. I will be changing the name to Spellstrike. This will more accurately show what it is doing.
For hitting, I would say the spell goes off regardless. If the spell is a touch attack, you would have to have at least made the touch AC to have it take effect. If you made the touch but failed the AC, you only get the spell's effect and not the weapon hit.
4- I was thinking about that yesterday. I could maybe add some elements to the augment table to augment with some very short duration debuffs of certain defenses, like fire, SR, poison.
Regarding disarming, I think I have a naming problem calling it charged blade. That implies it holds the spell. The spell and the hit happen at the same time.
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They would have to actually disarm as an immediate interrupt action to hit the weapon while it has a spell
This leads to a couple of other questions
If the blade is charged and say disarmed, does the spell target anyone other than the caster who picks it up?
Does the disarm actually have nothing to do with the spell, ie after the disarm you can still deliver the spell just as a touch attack?
I am not sure which is accurate....
I like it a lot.
Thought about adding metamagic feat to the list of bonus feats, instead of fighter feats only?
The powerful armor should be, IMO, a buff to every mage armor the class casts, it is goign to be very vulnerable to dispel spam otherwise.
Thought about adding some mechanic like a weapon crit= can apply a metamagic feat that round for free?
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3- I think I named it wrong. I will be changing the name to Spellstrike. This will more accurately show what it is doing.
So the weapon doesn't contain the spell like a spell storing weapon? You just make an attack and cast a spell simultaneously, occassionally using the weapon as a conduit?
For hitting, I would say the spell goes off regardless. If the spell is a touch attack, you would have to have at least made the touch AC to have it take effect. If you made the touch but failed the AC, you only get the spell's effect and not the weapon hit.
Did you feel that area spells were appropriate for the ability, and if so, should they be altered to target only one creature?
I'm sorry to keep rehashing previous questions, but I'm not really clear on some of the answers.
4- I was thinking about that yesterday. I could maybe add some elements to the augment table to augment with some very short duration debuffs of certain defenses, like fire, SR, poison.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean here...
3 - I see it acting like a Sudden Quicken action without using up a swift action. I would also say area spells would be allowed at your own risk, but may need it to be specific target spells to balance.
4 - For the augment additions, I was thinking of adding new things to the table like -5 Fire resist 1 rounds at a cost of +1, -2 SR 1 round at a cost of +3, -2 AC 1 round at a cost of +2. Allow it to go to 1d3 rounds on a critical.
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I like it a lot.
Thought about adding metamagic feat to the list of bonus feats, instead of fighter feats only?
The powerful armor should be, IMO, a buff to every mage armor the class casts, it is goign to be very vulnerable to dispel spam otherwise.
Thought about adding some mechanic like a weapon crit= can apply a metamagic feat that round for free?
I could alter it so you could get fighter or wizard bonus feats, depending on which way you want to go. Maybe make it paths like ranger's archery and two weapon.
On the mage armor, may do that ranger type thing with that too. Have the class have Mage Armor as a bonus spell that doesn't count against the spells known, then have the player choose a path, maybe have the feat and the armor tied together, like an arcane path giving mage armor boost and wizards feats or a martial path which gives armor augmentation and fighter feats. (Way of the Warrior/Way of the Mage ? )
Someone in annother thread mentioned that they wanted to force a F/M to cast all their attacks through weapon strikes. While I do not agree with this, they had a good idea for allowing the character to focus a spell into the blade and have it only affect the target. So a fireball could be channeled to only hit 1 person. I could see giving them an ability to do it with AoE and change the reflex for 1/2 to a fort for 1/2.
Personally, I like the idea of allowing cones and chain spells somehow.
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I also don't like that. That's a totally different concept. That's more like a straight fighter that can give his weapon powers. That would lead to playing running around killing peasants and harmless animals so they could use their buff spells. Chaos!!!
Someone in annother thread mentioned that they wanted to force a F/M to cast all their attacks through weapon strikes.
I also don't like that. That's a totally different concept. That's more like a straight fighter that can give his weapon powers. That would lead to playing running around killing peasants and harmless animals so they could use their buff spells. Chaos!!!
Someone in annother thread mentioned that they wanted to force a F/M to cast all their attacks through weapon strikes.
Well, buff spells could be cast by performing a kata, kinda like the warblade recharging maneuvers :)
Considering a level 10 Eldritch knight can imbue a critical hit with a spell... it might be overpowered, at 20th level, to apply a spell to a full attack action 7 times per day, and allow this ability from 2nd level furthermore.
I think a Fighter/Sorcerer/Eldritch knight has pretty much the same abilities, and maybe more, except for the weapon imbuing taken from the Paladin concept.
So, basically, while I wouldn't see this class implemented in a Pathfinder book, it works fine, though indeed I would replace the MageArmor stuff for Arcane Armor Training/Mastery.
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Considering a level 10 Eldritch knight can imbue a critical hit with a spell... it might be overpowered, at 20th level, to apply a spell to a full attack action 7 times per day, and allow this ability from 2nd level furthermore.
I think a Fighter/Sorcerer/Eldritch knight has pretty much the same abilities, and maybe more, except for the weapon imbuing taken from the Paladin concept.
So, basically, while I wouldn't see this class implemented in a Pathfinder book, it works fine, though indeed I would replace the MageArmor stuff for Arcane Armor Training/Mastery.
Arcane Armor Training/Mastery is swift action drops in ASF. The static 25% drop by level 20 and augmentations are little more functional. I don't believe having to use up a swift action shows "mastery" in casting in armor.
On his special ability (now spellstrike)is limited to certain times per day, where as the EK ability is up to a 25% chance on every round of combat(assuming a scimitar that's keen.) The ability is using the spell and strike 7 times, so full attack with 3 attacks could blow 3 of the 7 uses.