Yeah, at least two seperate products.
Excellent idea though, not all players have the Bestiary, and some would pass on the summoning spells just to avoid the trouble of having the DM look up the stats for them. (Happens in my group!)
Yeah, at least two seperate products.
Excellent idea though, not all players have the Bestiary, and some would pass on the summoning spells just to avoid the trouble of having the DM look up the stats for them. (Happens in my group!)
Plus don't forget a set of summoning cards for us folks who have Augment Summoning as a feat :)
Undeadlord
I like the idea of summoned creature cards, and every summoner PC or NPC in any game I've ever run picks up "Augmented Summoning" so having thous stats available would be very helpful.
I told my group about your cards and they like the idea a lot. So It looks like we'll have at least one complete set. Maybe two but that has more to do with how much the cards cost.
Now I'm thinking about how I should manage the cards for passing them out and putting them away. I'm seeing a binder with card holding pages and alphabetical order right now.
Yeah, at least two seperate products.
Excellent idea though, not all players have the Bestiary, and some would pass on the summoning spells just to avoid the trouble of having the DM look up the stats for them. (Happens in my group!)
It would save a WHOLE lot of time versus writing them down manually. ...getting the book, copying the information...
Plus don't forget a set of summoning cards for us folks who have Augment Summoning as a feat :)
...then they need to modify what they wrote down for the feats. Agreed. Summoning cards must have an 'Augment Summon' template.
Should I...
...make each card seperate (ie - Hawk, Celestial Hawk, Fiendish Hawk, Augmented Hawk, Augmented Celestial Hawk, Augmented Fiendish Hawk)
...make one card (ie - All hawks stats on one with multiple lines.) * Least likely, space and readability issues.
...make each card with the feat and one without (ie - Hawk/Celestial Hawk/Fiendish Hawk AND Augmented Hawk/Augmented Celestial Hawk/Augmented Fiendish Hawk)
OR
...make each card per alignment (ie - Hawk (Normal/Celestial/Fiendish) AND Augmented Hawk [Normal/Celestial/Fiendish]
I like the idea of summoned creature cards, and every summoner PC or NPC in any game I've ever run picks up "Augmented Summoning" so having thous stats available would be very helpful.
I told my group about your cards and they like the idea a lot. So It looks like we'll have at least one complete set. Maybe two but that has more to do with how much the cards cost.
Now I'm thinking about how I should manage the cards for passing them out and putting them away. I'm seeing a binder with card holding pages and alphabetical order right now.
As far as the cost goes, I'm usually pretty reasonable and poll paizo for a price point range. I'm planing on releasing the spell cards and summon cards seperately at the same price point and also releasing them as a set for less then both prices combined. Overall though, I think paizonians come up with a pretty fair price.
(Thanks again to everyone speaking up on the character sheets!)
The way I have managed my cards (the prototypes I've playtested my group with) is to print them on 6"x4" index cards (3x5 too small, 5x7 impractical) and when I've bought the index cards (both sides blank) most stores sell index card boxes. They're very cheap most of the time and the tops get labeled with a sharpie. On further step is I by two of the A-Z dividers and change letters with lots of spells/summons from "s" to "sa-sm" and "sn-sz".
Overall the biggest benefit I'm hoping is to be able to print them out by oneself for not much $$... but in my playtesting group, printing them on regular paper ended up failing as they are too flimsy and it's a waste of ink to keep reprinting them over and over. :D
...make each card seperate (ie - Hawk, Celestial Hawk, Fiendish Hawk, Augmented Hawk, Augmented Celestial Hawk, Augmented Fiendish Hawk)
i think this is best for simplicity, but if there are going to be more then 300 cards some compressing would be nice.
...make each card seperate (ie - Hawk, Celestial Hawk, Fiendish Hawk, Augmented Hawk, Augmented Celestial Hawk, Augmented Fiendish Hawk)i think this is best for simplicity, but if there are going to be more then 300 cards some compressing would be nice.
I actually got a call from one of my players today playtesting this and he said the same thing as you. I figured I would put up the math just to put things in perspective. Thank you for your feedback! :D
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There are 133 monsters between Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally
(If you include that there are 10 mephits and 4 types of elementals.)
There are 60 monsters that have the "*" meaning Celestial/Regular/Infernal, meaning 180 cards total.
There are 83 monsters that don't have the "*" variable.
(58 Summon Monsters and 25 Summon Nature's Ally not already included.)
180 cards plus 83 cards equals 263 cards. Adding in the Augmented Summoning, it peaks out at 526 (unless I made a mistake somewhere... pretty sleepy right now, so possible).
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OPTION A: 526 cards (All seperate)
OPTION B: 133 cards (Hyper-condensed)
OPTION C: 263 cards (Cel/Reg/Inf)
OPTION D: 266 cards (Reg/Augmented)
I have no qualms making all 526 double sided cards... I just want everyone to be able to informed and realistic decisions. By the same token, the spell cards are going to weigh in with 624 spells. I'm going to print out all 1200 cards myself if that is the way it goes. Just bringing information to ya! :D
Hmmmm. That's a tough call. On one hand I would think condensing them would be the best bet, but considering we'll probably only print the cards we need as we need them, having 266 doesn't seem so bad.
I would think doing everything as a seperate card (526 total) is almost too much. Especially when some of those cards will just be a difference between celestial and infernal. I would think Option C might be the best bet.
And when Bestiary II comes out you can do a supplementary set with any new creatures they add to the Summoning lists. :)
Option C
The mental work for Augmented is minimal compared to that many extra cards. I also would be happy to see a supplementary set for Bestiary II
Awesome... thanks for the replies drkfathr1 and lawful neutral... I've been playing with the new design, and I'm trying to make sure all the creatures will fit the draft before posting. :p
I am planning on supplimenting from the bestiary II provided I have a lost of what to add for what spell level. If not, I guess I'll have to poll it.
When do you think you'll have this product done? I need to get it as soon as possible. Next campaign I'll be playing a wizard :)
I had a face to face with my artist today, she'll be starting work on the art on Thursday. I'm deadset on trying to have this done by May, but I don't have a hard date yet... (Once I have my work back from my artist I'll be able to do that.) She's a full time college student, but she knows how important this is. :D
sounds great.
Hmmm, that would be just in time for me! Probably starting my next campaign (all PF finally) sometime in May. Considering it'll take a few sessions to get folks leveled up we could go a few months before I'd really start to need it...but May would be great. :)
Just an update, the development is going really well, however I have had a few requests for cards without images or spell words. This would be a seperate release, but is this something anyone here would prefer? that is not to say I would cut these things out, it's just that I might make a version without it if there's a preference for it.
I'll have the spell cards without the gestures or verbal component's design here a little later. I'll have 2 open fields for any ideas anyone has... :D Cheers!
None yet maybe after I get them I will think of something. But so far you seem to have everything covered just like with your Character sheet.
I appreciate that Dark_Mistress! I just got the new image uploaded... the image looks a little more like it does when I print them (the first front sided ones the font looked poor).
Click here to see the alternative spell card without illustrations image.
I'm not sure which one would be more popular, but I'll have the alternative ones out a bit sooner (not waiting on the artist). Thanks again for all of your feedback!
EDIT: I could move the spell source box to where the second open box and the page number is, put the page number to the right of spell source box, and have the open box on the end. I had one suggestion to put if the spell's dimensions could be shaped, but I'd still need a second. :D
Whats the two ????? box with open? under it for? Just curious.
Also I did think of something. Can you put in a blank typeable one in? So we can add our own spells from 3pp sources, or homemade etc spells. Or better maybe just one page full of retypeable ones.
The two boxes with the ????/open are for any ideas you all might have. :D I wouldn't call them extra space as much as I would call them an available resource for something else.
As far as a fillable card, I planned on including both a blank fillable card and a type-over card. I didn't want to step on Paizo's toes by scrubbing the spells in their books (kinda felt in the end this was abusing open content), but I did want to make it an option for those who had the books and pdfs. I have a lot of 3rd party publisher stuff also that I would like to fill in my cards with.
I've learned that filling it out takes a while, but it also familiarizes you with the new spell your entering! ;)
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Thats cool, I was just thinking it would be very handy. If I could bring up a page of the PDF with blank spell cards on it. Type in all the information and then print them. For future Paizo spells, 3pp spells or homemade stuff etc. Glad to see you are including it and perfectly understandable on not putting in every paizo spell. If it just covers the core book/SRD that would be a great start, add that with the typeable cards and I would be happy.
Thats cool, I was just thinking it would be very handy. If I could bring up a page of the PDF with blank spell cards on it. Type in all the information and then print them. For future Paizo spells, 3pp spells or homemade stuff etc. Glad to see you are including it and perfectly understandable on not putting in every paizo spell. If it just covers the core book/SRD that would be a great start, add that with the typeable cards and I would be happy.
I DO fully plan on including the spells in future rulebooks by paizo, I just don't feel right taking anything deity or setting specific I would have to "scrub" or in a way that could hurt paizo's sales. I will be doing updates for the APG content and Gamemaster's Guide, but on a couple week delay (the same way the SRD sites do). I can only hope that with the release of the new core classes they will list what spells will be included on what list (an official guide to conversion perhaps?).
I've been thinking as a happy compromise (as suggested by my playtesting group) using some spells like Admonishing Ray, Blacklight, etc... and encouraging the user to purchase the paizo content if they like those particular spell. This thread is what brought me to this final viewpoint.
*EDIT* In may was paizo had to do a bit of this when breaking free of WotC... like Melf's Acid Arrow. I wouldn't want to add things like Visions of Lamahtu... make sense?
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Yeah, but also keep in mind. While you are making this for Paizo Pathfinder. Some people might use it for other D20 games and or want to add spells from 3e 3pp OGL spells as well. I mean there is a ton of OGL spells for 3.5 edition out there. So one page of all blank fillible cards I think would be very handy.
I had a couple good suggestions for the blank spots, but I'm still open for ideas. One of the was to mark Language-Dependency (instead of leaving it in the [desciptor], and the other was to give Mind-affecting it's own spot. Anyone like or dislike this?
Yeah, but also keep in mind. While you are making this for Paizo Pathfinder. Some people might use it for other D20 games and or want to add spells from 3e 3pp OGL spells as well. I mean there is a ton of OGL spells for 3.5 edition out there. So one page of all blank fillible cards I think would be very handy.
No worries, I wasn't saying I wouldn't include the blank cards. I'm including the blank and retype card regardless of the addition or future content.
I think this would be great for 3.5e, since the pieces of the spell really didn't change. :)
If I was more skilled at Java I would add an inport feature from Excel, but I just couldn't get it to work or find someone that could... :p Maybe one day...
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I am good with it in the description or in the blank spots. As long as all relevant information is on the spell cards somewhere, I will be content. I have thought about the empty spots and i just can't think of anything that I feel just needs to be on the front like that. Least not yet.
Yeah I know you wasn't saying you wasn't going to do the typeable ones, I was just saying after thinking about it. A whole page of them would be nice, so one could do a whole page of new spells at once if need be.
Yeah, but also keep in mind. While you are making this for Paizo Pathfinder. Some people might use it for other D20 games and or want to add spells from 3e 3pp OGL spells as well. I mean there is a ton of OGL spells for 3.5 edition out there. So one page of all blank fillible cards I think would be very handy.
This is a definite want from me. The ability to add spells, neatly, really increases the usefulness of the product. I have a homebrew campaign world and there are a number of non-standard spells in it. Given my chickenscratch handwriting fillable would be great :D
R_Chance - Thanks for the comments! I have chickenscrath handwriting too... That's why I like fillabe stuff so much. I've got it set up to have single or double lines in a few places where extra room may be required. You can't directly click it (layers of fill boxes), but you can tab over. :D
Dark_Mistress - I wanted to ask you about the sheet of blanks. Are you wanting a whole page of different spells or the same spell? Also, thus far I have been designing these for index cards, but cardstock could technically be used as well. I could include 2 spells front and back card sides on the single landscape sheet. Would it be desirable to print on either page size sheets and/or index cards?
I hate to cut all of them out, and index cards are cheap, so I'll go this way myself, but if you all think that printing on page sized sheets, I'll definitely include it. :D
The newest design of the non-verbal/gesture cards are here. I filled in the holes and utilized the space. If you like or dislike the different layout let me know. It's not vastly different, but there are a few things. Thanks again!!!
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Well maybe I am not following how you are doing this. I thought you would have a group of index sized cards on a full sized sheet of paper(the size since it is a PDF and not a real sheet of paper). And then you could print them out and then cut them out. If you did it in landscape format you could fit 2 rows of 2 columns.
Well maybe I am not following how you are doing this. I thought you would have a group of index sized cards on a full sized sheet of paper(the size since it is a PDF and not a real sheet of paper). And then you could print them out and then cut them out. If you did it in landscape format you could fit 2 rows of 2 columns.
Initially my intention was for the cards to be printed onto somthing like this. Most printers have the slides for loading index cards, but I jst thought about how some people may find this tricky. I've tried printing them onto plain paper, and it doesn't hold up very well. Last night though I tried putting them on 110 weight cardstock. It seemed to work just fine.
I tried printing 4 3x5 cards on the page and they seemed too small for easy viewing. There wasn't enough room to print 4 4x6, so I tried printing 2 4x6 and 2 5x7 cards per sheet of paper. It seemed to work just fine.
I can try to rework this so that 3.5 cards are more viable if it's an issue. I really want everyone to be pleased with the final product. :D
As with the initiative cards I made before the character sheets, I found the way to make them print on most printers, it will just need more instructions on making sure they print right. If you click on the link, the preview for the init cards shows some cards 2 by 2 pretty well.
I was thinking of doing a photo set of the cards printed out on the fan page. I guess I'm going to be putting these onto full page sheets after all. :D I appreciated the feedback as always.
Minor resolved issue. On the last card upload it showed the wrong material component. This is fixed, the list got bumped for that one a single entry forward. Here's the fixed image (the previous link is gone).
I just want to note, that all the cards will be proofed by three different people before release. Protoypes sometimes have these issues. Thanks!
I talked to office Depot and it would be about $20 all together to buy cards and have them printed for summoned creatures and spell (1000cards)
Leave the .pdf with them and come back tomorrow that way you can save time. Its about the same cost as doing it at home maybe a little cheaper.
I plan on getting some nice card box the the alphabetical order sections so my total cost for storing and printing is about $40.
Hmmm... I actually think I may take this route as well (drop-off printing). I'm sure printing them out and cutting them would be cheaper, but more time consuming. I had to take a couple days off for my birthday, but I'm certain the spell cards will be done this month (I cannot say the same about the illustrated/verbal version, only because I'm going to be waiting on the finished stuff from my artist).
This is the list of non-core spells to be included. I know they aren't all from each book... I like the concept of introducing the open content in hopes the player will take interest in the paizo product. I don't own all the books, so content is limited to what I have. I have purchased a majority of them from my local gaming store, but the rest I plan on buying in the nearr future. For those of you who are a big fan of the companion and chronicles, you may recognize some of these...
- Admonishing Ray
- Armor of Darkness
- Aura of the Unremarkable
- Blacklight
- Bolt of Glory
- Bolts of Bedevilment
- Boneshatter
- Book Ward
- Burning Disarm
- Codespeak
- Covetous Aura
- Crown of Glory
- Deathwine
- Detect Charm
- Diamond Spray
- Dweomer Retaliation
- Emergency Force Sphere
- Enhanced Diplomacy
- Flesh to Ooze
- Hardening
- Hellfire Ray
- Hidden Knowledge
- Hurricane Blast
- Impede Speech
- Liberating Command
- Pattern Recognition
- Raiment of Command
- Revelation
- Rune of Durability
- Rune of Warding
- Sand Whirlwind
- Sands of Time
- Scrivener's Chant
- See Through Stone
- Shield Speech
- Signifer's Rally
- Silverlight
- Status, Greater
- Summon Flight of Eagles
- Suppress Charms/Compulsions
- Surelife
- Swipe
- Tomb Legion
- Twine Double
- Veil of Ash
- Vision of Hell
- Water Shield
All of these are open content as far as I know... any thoughts?
Looks good to me, though now that you made this list I have to ask. Do you plan to included open content 3pp stuff?
Louis actually suggested to me contacting a few third party publishers about making sets for their products. While technically I could just use what is open third party, I wouldn't want to take advantage of the system. I'll be contacting them about doing sets with them after the cards are up on the RPGNOW.
I'd really love to do a whole spell book like the kinda stuff like 4 Winds Fantasy does or perhaps a collection of stuff like Super Genius... Any specific publishers you'd be interested in?
Looks good to me, though now that you made this list I have to ask. Do you plan to included open content 3pp stuff?Louis actually suggested to me contacting a few third party publishers about making sets for their products. While technically I could just use what is open third party, I wouldn't want to take advantage of the system. I'll be contacting them about doing sets with them after the cards are up on the RPGNOW.
I'd really love to do a whole spell book like the kinda stuff like 4 Winds Fantasy does or perhaps a collection of stuff like Super Genius... Any specific publishers you'd be interested in?
I like the idea of hooking the spells to their origin by publisher / product. It makes it easy to include / integrate spells from sources you are using and may lead you to other 3pp stuff you might like. Win for the 3pp there.
I'm also a sucker for more spells to choose from. Thou at the moment paizo products are all that i'm looking for.
Just a quick update... I'm looking for bugs right now, and havingmy playtesters do the same. I really wanna minimize any bugs on release since many of us are having these printed as sets. Also, I've been making the brief spell descriptions for the non-core spells based on core spell (these weren't originally included outside of core spells).
I've been working on this most of the morning. Someone emailed me a concern about the third printing/errata update of the core rulebook that has been announced by Paizo. I've made a striving effort to include any updates (official) I've found to the spells, but I want to know from you all:
Should the release come before the update and with the new errata?
OR
Should the release come after the newest update with errata synced?
I know many of you will be printing this out, and as such I owuld like to know your viewpoint. Thanks everyone!
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Well my question is, will you be updating the spell cards after the 3rd printing is out. Least for any of them that need to be updated and then re uploading the file? If you say yes, then i say just do it when ever you have it and maybe just put a one page note in the file letting people know this does not including the 3rd printing errata but a new version down the road will. Then people can choose or not choose to print them out and everyone gets the PDF version nowish. :)
Well my question is, will you be updating the spell cards after the 3rd printing is out. Least for any of them that need to be updated and then re uploading the file? If you say yes, then i say just do it when ever you have it and maybe just put a one page note in the file letting people know this does not including the 3rd printing errata but a new version down the road will. Then people can choose or not choose to print them out and everyone gets the PDF version nowish. :)
If I will update to any new official errata as it comes out either way. If the cards are released before the third print, I will update the core file and include a separate file with all the updated cards separated. This way the new file is up to date and the people who have already printed cards will now be able to just print the changed cards.
The only reason I bring it up is because I am uncertain just how many spells they will be updating. I'm really hoping that Giant Form gets updated as I feel the wording technically could go either way. :p ...but that's another thread...
I like the idea where we get the product sooner, then you release a small .pdf with any updates later.
Well my vote is still the same. If you are going to update it like that, then i say release it when you are done and then just do the update when you can.
+1. The joker in this deck is your workload though. A one man show can be tough to run (and have a life beyond it that is). If it's easier on you to turn it out later I can live with that.
I too say that sooner is better, and when it comes to errata, keep in mind that many of us may not be using the errate right away anyways.
A seperate file with any updates later is a fine way to add in any errata later. Plus if they only end up tweaking a few spells you haven't put off releasing your product for almost no reason.
Then it's official, this is the path that will be taken.
R_Chance - It only really gets difficult when my son gets more teeth in, then he goes from manageable to a handful. My playtesters have been swamped with their personal lives, but this kinda thing happens.
I'm admittedly not one to go about the normal procedure for publishers releasing things, so this idea may sound strangle... Would the four of you be interested in proofing for a free copy, updates, and named playtester credits?
Well, the new errata is out, I just downloaded it... Curious to see what has changed. :)