Paul Watson
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I'm using Tome of Battle classes, essentially unmodified, and I have one major concern regarding backwards-compatibility: Concentration. Several maneuvers use Concentration checks, and I'm at a loss as to how to replace them now that it's been eliminated. Is it reasonable to simply put it back?
Autohypnosis has been suggested. Or just use the new concentration rules for the Concentration checks (level+key ability). An extra skill point to spend won't unbalance the classes.
| Quandary |
Concentration hasn't been eliminated, it's just an automatic Class Feature of Classes whose abilities use it, rather than a skill.
If you want to use a 3.5 Caster Class, you would give them a Concentration rating using their Caster Level just like PRPG Casters. If you have a non-Caster Class that uses Concentration for something, you likewise just give them a Concentration rating, using their Class Level in whatever classes that have that ability + the relevant ability score, which is whatever is appropriate to usage of that ability, i.e. if Concentration affects their usage of "Ki Blast" which is modified by WIS, use WIS, if it is most effected by another ability score, use that one. If it is unclear, just improvise based on the flavor.
TriOmegaZero
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I'd say a limited amount of bonuses would be alright. Maybe a couple +2s or a +3. A magic enhancement to add the weapon enhancement bonus to initiator level checks. +1 bonus price. If he adds too much to the roll, he can start doing serious damage and serious save DCs for his maneuvers. But it is alright to let him invest a little bit for a modest return.
| Gilfalas |
I switched the maneuvers over to using Perception, as the descriptive text often seemed more related to finely controlled use of the senses than simply concentration. Keeps it tied to a skill while maintaining the flavor of the class.
While I can thematically see the reason behind this, the problem is that concentration was a Constitution based skill in 3.5. It was almost universally better for the martial initiator to use his concentration score to fuel the appropriate manuevers in 3.5 than not. Which was the whole point of the manuevers in the first place. Having the option of a 'boost' when needed but not constantly.
In 3.5 a martial initiator would max Concentration if they used abiliyies that keyed off it and usually had a decent attribute boost to the value as constitution is normally a high value on most melee types. Again something I think was 'designed as intended'.
But by switching it to Perception, you now lose that attribute boost to the skill. Perception is now Wisdom and not Con and that is a large chunk of points to lose of a skill value for a melee type. Keying it off the initiator level now also loses that +3 class benefit, which was a buyable +3 Skill level in 3.5.
That is a, generally, 4-6 point average value drop from 3.5 to Pathfinder, which can be a major difference, especially at low level.
In our campaign my ref has simply added 'martial concentration' as a skill, keyed off Constitution, and made it a class skill for the Crusader, Warblade and Swordsage. While it means your burning a Skill Point per level, I have found it well worth the expense when using abilities that key off it from Bot9S and with the excellent skill point progression of the Bot9S classes they can afford the point, especially with the new favorded class bonus.
So far it has not been any problem.
| erian_7 |
I actually see that as a benefit, rather than hindrance. From my play experience (we've used Perception as a stand-in since PRPG Beta), the DCs for maneuvers were never hard to hit on a consistent basis. Beyond the mechanics, it helped shift the Diamond Mind character more toward the wise "Sword Saint" concept than a tank. Now, I acknowledge that your play experience may be different from mine...