I might be late for the party but I'd just like to chime in with ideas of my own to fix the crossbow problem. A player in my group recently wanted to make a character using a crossbow, but was put off by how vastly superior regular bows were.
These weapons are based on the feat 'Crossbow Sniper' from PHB II from 3.5, but are weapons instead of feats. Repeating crossbows have always been a really lousy counterpart to the composite bows, since they add in a drawback which pretty much nullifies their bonuses. They also fall way behind the composite bows in damage, and to me crossbows should always be the slow, hard hitting ranged weapon.
The precision crossbows differ from the composite bows because they do not require a high strength score to use effectively, rather a high dexterity score. Light precision crossbows will be more or less equal to the composite longbows, while heavy precision crossbows will fire around one bolt per round which will deal massive damage.
Precision Crossbows
Whether fitted with a sniper's scope or a highly sensitive trigger, the precision crossbow is a highly modified and complex weapon. To properly use it requires finesse, but in return it allows the user to make shots with lethal accuracy, adding a portion of the users dexterity modifier to the attack's damage, light crossbows adding half damage and heavy crossbows full damage. They are made with a particular dexterity rating which is required to use them effectively.
Light Precision Crossbow
A +1 precision light crossbow required a dexterity modifier of +2 to use effectively, a +2 precision crossbow requires a dexterity modifier of +4 and so on. If the user does not have a sufficient dexterity score he gains no bonus to damage and a -2 penalty on attack rolls. Otherwise, the precision crossbow's bonus to damage corresponds to its modifier. Each +1 modifier adds 100 gp to the base price of the crossbow.
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a light precision crossbow is treated as if it were a light crossbow.
Heavy Precision Crossbow
A +1 precision light crossbow required a dexterity modifier of +1 to use effectively, a +2 precision crossbow requires a dexterity modifier of +2 and so on. If the user does not have a sufficient dexterity score he gains no bonus to damage and a -2 penalty on attack rolls. Otherwise, the precision crossbow's bonus to damage corresponds to its modifier. Each +1 modifier adds 100 gp to the base price of the crossbow. For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a heavy precision crossbow is treated as if it were a heavy crossbow.
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If you want to make it a bit better on the fluff side, you could even call it a gnome precision crossbow, which every gnome can use but regular races would need to have martial weapon proficiency to use :)
Although I was all on for the increased firing strength modification we came up with using the strength, I'm not entirely sure if your option wouldn't be the better option.
Thus I'm now conflicted, but my desire for realism has me asking if this would be more accurate than the strength requirement crossbow.
Probably not from what I know, but I could be very wrong.
However, game mechanic wise, it looks sound to me, though I'm not that great a judge when it comes to balance.
Therefore I'll be waiting for the opinions of others.
However, my opinion as I stated prior, is that I like this mechanic, it seems sound and I would/could be willing to use such a house rule in my games.
Sort of surprised that the cost for the heavy version is the same, is that true with the composite bows as well, I though the long was more expensive to upgrade.
Although I was all on for the increased firing strength modification we came up with using the strength, I'm not entirely sure if your option wouldn't be the better option.
Thus I'm now conflicted, but my desire for realism has me asking if this would be more accurate than the strength requirement crossbow.
Probably not from what I know, but I could be very wrong.
However, game mechanic wise, it looks sound to me, though I'm not that great a judge when it comes to balance.
Therefore I'll be waiting for the opinions of others.
However, my opinion as I stated prior, is that I like this mechanic, it seems sound and I would/could be willing to use such a house rule in my games.
Sort of surprised that the cost for the heavy version is the same, is that true with the composite bows as well, I though the long was more expensive to upgrade.
Yeah, it's the same for the composite bows, +100 gp flat per +1. I didn't want to meddle about in that and this seemed good enough.
I think this is a superior option to a strength dependent crossbow because this would give low strength, range focused characters the ability to deal more damage. Thus it isn't competing with the composite bows but rather aiming for a different market.
Could this not however, make the Str bows obsolete, I could see that people would there just want to pour all their puts into Dex, specifically rangers, instead of having str, thus increasing their AC and such, focusing on range with crossbows, thus as I stated.
Making the bow obsolete.. I dunno.
Composite on Longbows cost 100gp per +, Shortbows are 75 per +.
I can see the 1/2 Dex on light crossbows being close to reasonable, but the full Dex on heavy is... nutty. Bows would be completely obsolete for any archer. A couple feats (rapid reload, crossbow mastery if heavy) would make the crossbows deal far more damage for most archers.
I can't see it, gamewise, sorry.
Edit: I could maybe see you using Strength as the pre-req *for* precision crossbows - the strength to a heavy weapon like that steady.
Well, the thing is that you can only get a single bolt off in a round with a heavy crossbow. Rapid reload only takes the full round action down to a move action. As levels go up, the bowman gets a lot of attacks while the one with the heavy crossbow is always limited to one attack per round.
And I had some worries about precision light crossbows making composite bows obsolete, which is why I made them progress slower. A user with 16 strength can get a composite longbow +3 while you'd need to have 22 dex to get a light precision crossbow of the same bonus.
Fair enough, hmm perhaps this mechanic will see use in my games then..but for now I'll stick with the Str crossbows. Maybe, gah... I can't decide now.
Which is more realistic !!! ><
If you want to add realism, just do like in 1E/2E, and make the longbow an Exotic Weapon, (it took 2 weapon profs to master in the earlier games, vs. 1 for xbow). In real life, a longbowman required years of practice to approach anywhere near the accuracy you could get with a crossbow.
Crossbows should be allowed to be built with a strength modifier. There's no reason NOT to have this. Bring back the Crossbow of SPeed that auto-cocked themselves, and you have no problems competing with a Bow, either.
Another idea is to give them +2 to hit vs armor, meaning they have a bit more punch then bows do...which they did, at one time being considered weapons of the devil by the church for their effectiveness at spitting knights of God. Longbows attempt to do the same by using Pile arrows. This is what xbows had in the later game, and the Birthright setting.
==Aelryinth
If you want to add realism, just do like in 1E/2E, and make the longbow an Exotic Weapon, (it took 2 weapon profs to master in the earlier games, vs. 1 for xbow). In real life, a longbowman required years of practice to approach anywhere near the accuracy you could get with a crossbow.
Crossbows should be allowed to be built with a strength modifier. There's no reason NOT to have this. Bring back the Crossbow of SPeed that auto-cocked themselves, and you have no problems competing with a Bow, either.
Another idea is to give them +2 to hit vs armor, meaning they have a bit more punch then bows do...which they did, at one time being considered weapons of the devil by the church for their effectiveness at spitting knights of God. Longbows attempt to do the same by using Pile arrows. This is what xbows had in the later game, and the Birthright setting.
==Aelryinth
Now what would happen if I gave crossbows the ability to be built with a strength mod, and then a +1 to hit vs medium or heavy armors, and made the longbow exotic?
Would it unbalance?? Also, wouldn't shortbow be exotic?
I didn't say do ALL of that...although 1E did. And nobody complained about the power of a bow in 1E.Note the +2 should apply against heavy NATURAL armor as well...
Short bows require MUCH less strength and power to use then longbows...they also have much less range. Short bows are drawn to the chest, not the ear. They'd be almost a child's bow. Less power, less training, less effect.
It took great strength and power to master a longbow, pure upper body and shoulder strength. Those things are NOT easy to master.
A greatbow would then be a HEavy or Large Longbow, and require double exotic.
I didn't say do ALL of that...although 1E did. And nobody complained about the power of a bow in 1E.Note the +2 should apply against heavy NATURAL armor as well...
Short bows require MUCH less strength and power to use then longbows...they also have much less range. Short bows are drawn to the chest, not the ear. They'd be almost a child's bow. Less power, less training, less effect.
It took great strength and power to master a longbow, pure upper body and shoulder strength. Those things are NOT easy to master.
A greatbow would then be a HEavy or Large Longbow, and require double exotic.
I was already thinking of heavier natural armors before you posted it, but I do thank you, just in case I didn't know.
Hmm, well then, which do you suggest.
The Strength mods, or the +2?
Both.
A Longbow then becomes the equivalent of a l crossbow with the Rapid Reload feat. IT's got better range, too. If you don't want to invest in multiple attacks, the +2 TH from the xbow makes it the default choice. You only get one attack, but it's got a better chance of punching through.
Also, you could get the 'quiverbearer' effect. Have a brawny commoner along with an extra xbow, and he can cock and reload it, swap it out to someone with a high Dex and marksman feats. Shoot, swap, shoot, swap. Can't do that with a bow! :)
==Aelryinth
Amazingly awesome idea, however, you b+*!#ed me out for trying to apply both >.>, then you tell me to add both, or rather that you'd add both.
I'M SO CONFUSED!, lol.
Came up with something.
Crossbows - Both the repeating crossbows, and the hand crossbow are considered to be simple weapons. In addition you may upgrade non-repeating crossbows to add increased damage, this upgrade functions similarly to that of the Composite upgrade for Bows. The maximum Upgrade number is +4, this gives them a minimum strength requirement to be able to load, or increases the loading time by one step to a maximum of 2 full rounds for each +1 bonus for those who do not meet the strength requirement.
Example: A +2 Composite Heavy Crossbow would require a minimum strength of 14 in order to load properly, but for those with a 13 or lower strength it would require two full rounds of loading time.
That's about how I'd handle it. I would probably make any xbow with a Str Adjustment a martial weapon, too, but that's elective...SHOOTING an xbow is the easiest thing about it, and one reason they were issued instead of longbows is because they are so much easier to use.
==Aelryinth
Noticed a mishap with my wording which could be potentially misleading.
Thus a fix.
Crossbows - Both the repeating crossbows, and the hand crossbow are considered to be simple weapons. In addition you may upgrade non-repeating crossbows to add increased damage, this upgrade functions similarly to that of the Composite upgrade for Bows. The maximum Upgrade number is +4, this gives them a minimum strength requirement to be able to load, or increases the loading time by one step for each +1 bonus (to a maximum of 2 full rounds) for those who do not meet the strength requirement.
Example: A +2 Composite Heavy Crossbow would require a minimum strength of 14 in order to load properly, but for those with a 13 or lower strength it would require two full rounds of loading time.