Fortress of the stone giants question


Rise of the Runelords


Question:
I guess I missed it, but whats the point of the giant attack on Sandpoint? I know they want to get a piece of the Old Light for Mock/Karzoug to verify this is where the Scribbler is, but why? Karzoug seems to want to destroy the Scribblers "grave", but why? Where is this point detailed in the book?

Sovereign Court

Spoiler:
When the time comes, Karzoug is going to go get the Scribbler and be extra mean to him. Big K has the giants taking stones from every known location of RL Alaznist's fire towers still around in Varisia.


Twowlves wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Reply:

Thanks for the reply but it doesn't really help me.

In the AP it says Karzoug wants to reduce the site "to dust and ashes" when he finds the right one. Why? I can't find his reason for doing this. It would make sense if he wanted to find and capture the Scribler, but he doesn't, he wants to find where the Scribler is (or was) and destroy the site but it doesn't ever say WHY.

Based on the lack of responses I guess this might be a bit of a plot-hole, which is fine I can fill it. Seems like a strange plot hole to have though as this is the catalyst for the whole adventure.

Sovereign Court

Two reasons:

1) Payback (for the Scribbler double crossing him) and

2) Insurance (Xaliasa knows where the Runeforge is located, and that could be bad for Karzoug if PCs find it).

p9 FotSG


cibet44 wrote:
Seems like a strange plot hole to have though as this is the catalyst for the whole adventure.

Page 9 gives the best answer... Mokmorian wants stones from the four Hellfire Flumes, to get Conna to determine which is from the grave of Xaliasa, so that he can destroy it later and gain special favour with Karzoug.

So, Mokmorian has told the raiding parties to secure them, but without a major incident with the natives.

However, the raid party leader, Teraktinus, doesn't like the natives, and has got all his group ready to conduct a bit of loot and pillage as well, leading to the raid.

In my view Teraktinus is ultimately the problem for Mokmorian, and then Karzoug. If he'd have followed the orders correctly, he most likely could have got the stone needed with any major confrontation, meaning no raid, and no real reason for the PC's to follow them back to Jorgenfist, and onto Mokmorian. The stone giant armies would march, and probably succeed, and Karzoug would come back and very bad things would happen...

Silly giant! :)


Twowlves wrote:

1) Payback (for the Scribbler double crossing him) and

By the book, Mokmorian didn't really know Karzougs reasons around Xaliasa. It only says that Xaliasa had something to do with Runeforge, and the place needed to be levelled.

Mokmorian was just following orders. Probably safe to guess that M would assume that its something to do with payback, but he wouldn't know about the double cross...

In any event, you can give him whatever reason you like :)


Quote:


2) Insurance (Xaliasa knows where the Runeforge is located, and that could be bad for Karzoug if PCs find it).

This at least makes some sense. The only problem is Karzoug thinks the Scribbler is dead (the AP states Karzoug is trying to find the Scribblers "grave site") so if this is the case why is he worried about someone finding him? I know there are tons of ways to speak to the dead but there are even MORE ways to get through rubble, so Karzougs plan to destroy the Scribblers grave doesn't seem to accomplish much.

Quote:


Page 9 gives the best answer... Mokmorian wants stones from the four Hellfire Flumes, to get Conna to determine which is from the grave of Xaliasa, so that he can destroy it later and gain special favour with Karzoug.

Not really. At this point in Mokmurians life he is being controlled almost wholly by Karzoug. What Mokmurian does he does because of the control Karzoug already has over him. So Karzoug is the one that wants the stones he is just using Mokmurian as his proxy. This leads me to the same question: WHY does Karzoug want to destroy the place?

TBA wrote:
Twowlves wrote:

1) Payback (for the Scribbler double crossing him) and

By the book, Mokmorian didn't really know Karzougs reasons around Xaliasa. It only says that Xaliasa had something to do with Runeforge, and the place needed to be levelled.

Mokmorian was just following orders. Probably safe to guess that M would assume that its something to do with payback, but he wouldn't know about the double cross...

Exactly. The payback scenario doesn't seem to work (and payback for what? What did Scribbler do to Karzoug?)

I'll come up with something but, man, what a big plot hole.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's not a big plot hole. You're an ancient, mad, evil wizard and you discover that a guy you considered loyal was a double (or even triple) crosser. So you want to feed your not-so-small ego and turn him, his dog, his house, and the whole place into SMITHERINESS ASAP MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


cibet44 wrote:
This leads me to the same question: WHY does Karzoug want to destroy the place?

It doesn't make that clear...

Gorbacz wrote:
You're an ancient, mad, evil wizard and you discover that a guy you considered loyal was a double (or even triple) crosser. So you want to feed your not-so-small ego and turn him, his dog, his house, and the whole place into SMITHERINESS ASAP MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's a good a reason as any... :)


Gorbacz wrote:
It's not a big plot hole. You're an ancient, mad, evil wizard and you discover that a guy you considered loyal was a double (or even triple) crosser. So you want to feed your not-so-small ego and turn him, his dog, his house, and the whole place into SMITHERINESS ASAP MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Funny, but if that's the official reason that's some lazy story telling. Don't get me wrong the AP is great but connecting the dots is what an adventure path is supposed to do. These are big dots to not to connect.

So basically Karzoug has no reason to take the rocks from Old Light in Sandpoint other than to alert the PCs to his existence and give them a means and reason to come get him. Not the best plan for a super ancient wizard that desperately wants to come back to Golarian.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

OK, after reading a bit more. Karzoug knows that Scribbler had a thing for, erm, scribbling and so he has a well-founded reason to suspect that some clues as to the Runeforge might be located at Scribller's final resting place. In order to prevent anybody (and bear in mind that at this point Karzoug is likely not really much focused on the PCs) from getting to that info, he asks Mokky to take care of that during one of his scouting forays.


Gorbacz wrote:
OK, after reading a bit more. Karzoug knows that Scribbler had a thing for, erm, scribbling and so he has a well-founded reason to suspect that some clues as to the Runeforge might be located at Scribller's final resting place. In order to prevent anybody (and bear in mind that at this point Karzoug is likely not really much focused on the PCs) from getting to that info, he asks Mokky to take care of that during one of his scouting forays.

Ahh. This makes sense. Karzoug wants to destroy (or better yet, occupy) the site of the Scribblers grave and cleanse it of any clues that may exist to the location of Runeforge. Good, thanks.


And as long as the giants would have followed the correct plan, any reason would have done.

Whats the likelyhood that your groups PCs are going to find out exactly for what reason the raid took place?


cibet44 wrote:
So basically Karzoug has no reason to take the rocks from Old Light in Sandpoint other than to alert the PCs to his existence and give them a means and reason to come get him. Not the best plan for a super ancient wizard that desperately wants to come back to Golarian.

I know you have your answer already, but I wanted to throw in one more thing...Karzoug couldn't care less about the PCs. Remember his final statement: "This is the best you can come up with in ten thousand years?" Ancient, evil, super wizards have a tendency for hubris.

I suspect if they are captured by Karzoug they will be put in a ridiculously slow-moving, certain-death trap, subjected to a soliloquy, then left to die. (See Austin Powers, or any of the TV Batman, or James Bond...you get the idea.) Just kidding, the Karzoug in my campaign will follow the soliloquy with a mass disintegrate, muhahahahahaaaa!

Sovereign Court

cibet44 wrote:

The payback scenario doesn't seem to work (and payback for what? What did Scribbler do to Karzoug?)

Read the beginning of #5 again. The Scribbler was a double agent for Karzoug. He infiltrated Alaznist's forces and was stationed at the Hellfire Plume, but was captured and gave up Karzoug.

Likewise, I'd guess that Big K didn't tell M why he wanted the site destroyed, or that he planned to go back later and dig him up, Wish him alive again and torture him for his betrayal.


Old Guy GM wrote:
the Karzoug in my campaign will follow the soliloquy with a mass disintegrate, muhahahahahaaaa!

My Karzoug will do roughly the same, its good to play overconfident nutcases :)

Cibet44 got his answer tho :)


I've never been that fond of this fight. I think putting Sandpoint in danger is great and all, but since we will return to Sandpiont in the next chapter I'm not sure how much this fight does for the story. It also informs the party of the army, but to me that doesn't have the impact that a fully formed army on the move would have. My plan right now is to really extend this section of the adventure using Red Hand of Doom as a template. I may or may not have this specific fight in my game, I haven't decided.

That said I always thought the idea is that M was trying to find Runeforge, which in my head is lost to everyone. So he isn't there to destroy the area, but to clear it out and research. In addition to htis group there are also three other groups out there seeking for information. I understand that might be me interjecting something that was never there, but that makes more sense to me. Hope that helps.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Rise of the Runelords / Fortress of the stone giants question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rise of the Runelords