in 3.5 spellcasters were to easy stop. it was called grapple. and no matter what various boards say, spellcasters were nowehere near as broken as people say. thier abilities were heavily limited resources and had to many ways to shut them down. the char op scenarios seem too fabricated to be real. i have played a wizard, a sorcerer and a cleric, and each time, i felt underpowered. Char Op seems to think too highly of spellcasters. all they see is the mathmematical crunch of the spell, not the thousands of restrictions, nor the many ways to shut it down. stopping a caster is too easy. all you need is a CMB check with a 2 or better on the Die. almost all the time. spellcasters aren't overpowered, they are underpowered. i have been shut down too many times. mostly by something so minor as my DM rolling a 2 on the dice. and there is a 3.5 feat that makes defensive casting impossible, basically it's either get hit and lose the spell, or just plain lose the spell. and i maximize concentration. my 13th level wizard (wizard 7/loremaster6) has a +20 concentration (without feats) and still gets shut down. my dm plays his creatures like tactical masterminds. his primary tactic is take out the caster. even when his creatures have extremely low intellegence or wisdom.
heres the new feat
Somatic Feet
Prerequisite; Dexterity 16 or better, Caster level 3rd, weapon finesse, agile manuevers, character must be human
Benefit you may use your feet in place of your hands to perform a spell's somatic components. you may cast spells with somatic components while grappled. you must make a concentration check as normal for casting while grappled.
Special a spellcaster without this feat cannot cast spells that have somatic components while grappled.
Actually there is no need for this feat. The Pathfinder RPG places no restrictions on the kind of spells you can cast while grappled. Check out the description of the grappled condition:
Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.
...my GM *edited for copyright reasons* plays his creatures like tactical masterminds. his primary tactic is take out the caster...
Apart from Pathfinder having fixed this already - what you say is:
My GM does everything he can to kill me if I play a caster, so I think casters are underpowered.
I don't htink we have a rules problem here but rather a GM problem.
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My casters tend to live longer than the party tanks, but that's mainly because I'm always packing Invisibility. Oh, and even though you can cast while grappled, you cannot cast while pinned if the spell has a somatic or material component (unless you have eschew materials). My halfling sorcerer got grappled by a Vampire Sorcerer, and like a chump I tried to hit him with scorching ray rather than Burning Hands (he had so much force armor there was no chance to hit him with my rays while grappled). Then he pinned me, and if it hadn't been for the cleric and his Holy Symbol, I would have been rolling up another character (after my last one had died just earlier that session!).
But, aside from that I did get the chance to fry a large amount of vampire spawns with a fireball (draconic sorcerer ftw) on our way out.
One of the biggest things to remember is that in pathfinder, grappling someone is no longer draping yourself over them like a blanket- you grab on of their arms with one hand, or any such action that is roughly the equivalent of that. Pinned is the one that you have to watch out for, especially if they have a length of rope somewhere on them, because you'll soon be helpless.
...my GM *edited for copyright reasons* plays his creatures like tactical masterminds. his primary tactic is take out the caster...Apart from Pathfinder having fixed this already - what you say is:
My GM does everything he can to kill me if I play a caster, so I think casters are underpowered.
I don't htink we have a rules problem here but rather a GM problem.
casters have very limited resources and are just too easy to shut down. which makes them technically underpowered. all these theoriticlaly optimized online builds are just fabricated, they all seem to "start" at 20th level. they all seem to have the right spell for the job, they all seem to disregard any components, or the fact that said components affect the caster's resources. there is also the point that lower level spells have slower scaling and lower caps in effectiveness. they fact that monsters' saving throws always scale faster than the PCs' DC's enforced to make them. the fact that spellcasters are too easy to shut down. casters have to burn actions, slots, and any available applicable material or XP components to cast thier spells, and follow any limited applications the spell possesses. there is also the fact that the spell has to be prepared in advance. with all these issues that spellcasters have to go through to use thier "Spells" they may as well be underpowered. the only resources a martial character burns are "actions" and maybe "wealth", a skill monkey burns those 2 and "skill points". casters burn those and a variety of other resources, and they are just plain too easy to shut down. there may be a few "weaken the fighter" spells, but there are more "shut down the caster" options, one of which, anyone can do. by merely rolling a 2 on the 20 sided dice.
it's not that my casters die, it's that they are incapacitated for so long by my dm just rolling a "2" on a 20 sided dice. or he just uses creatures with blanket immunities, i have tried direct damage, save or dies, save or sucks, buffing, healbotting, utilitarian focus, and a plethora of other things.
i created the feat for myself and for people with similar issues. my GM hates monks, but actually helps them out. but he shuts down every caster i play. i am usually one of the group's only pure casters, we are lucky to get a second, but this is not when i am playing a rogue. i rotate between rogues and casters, and thrown away my freedom of character choice, just so the party can have a cleric, or in some cases, a wizard. we rarely ever have more than a single pure primary caster, let alone 2. we may get a watered down secondary caster, but that is rare. unless we get a new member willing to play one, which is rare, because almost every applicant i have seen wants to play a some martial class (typically ranger) and is either a short lived member or denied entirely. our party tends to be "Fighter Heavy" as well, but with the less optimal combatants, a monk, a dwarven 2WF figther, and a divine zealot of somekind (usually the only optimized member)
Alright, grapple is not that specific to your hands, if it were you would still be able to walk around, and a monk would still be able to do flurry of blows with whatever body part wasn't being held feet, knees, head, elbows and it would be worthless against creatures with more than 2 arms. Also it does nothing to change the mechanics of casting while gappled. Unless you can pull out spell components with your feet I would say it wouldn't be that useful of a feat.
Several questions about your problem though.
1) What level are you. playing a wizard or sorcerer at low levels is hard, you don't have powerful world changing effects. Stay behind the fighter and buff, summon, and when those run out throw cantrips out there. The enemies shouldn't be paying more attention to you than the enlarged fighter tearing them up. In fact if you are small and the fighter is large you can stay in the same square, use him for cover, and he gets attacks of opportunity if they try to attack you.
2) Are you expecting the fighter to maintain agro like if it were an MMO. If your fighter chops someone in half with a battle ax, and you throw a fireball killing half the enemies, you really think nobody will pay attention to you. Being the big flashy envoker paints a big target on you.
3) Have you tried actively removing yourself as a target? Invisibility, flight, blink, Walls, hiding up in the trees, taking cover behind the fighter, and just about anything you can make up on the spot can make you less likely to be attacked. Standing in the middle of the field and casting spells at enemies is going to get even a level 20 wizard killed by a swarm of goblins.
4) Have you tried spells that don't require saves? Touch attacks tend to be fairly consistently good, with scorching ray being great even at mid to high levels, a enervation can neuter stronger enemies quickly. Buffs to your allies will greatly increase party effectiveness and make them targets instead of you. Summons are great for keeping enemies flanked, distractions, or meat walls.
If you are really playing a wizard that is actively trying to stay out of active combat and not being flashy and destructive, and the enemies are still attacking you first ignoring everyone else, I would have to agree it's time to talk to your GM. You shouldn't be having every encounter against super grapplers that can fly, see invisibility, ignore cover, and hate casters with a passion beyond anything else.
my current caster is named Nox (which mean's Night in latin), she is a Wizard 7/loremaster 6. (13th level) she is a living encyclopedia.
my dm looks for ways to stop any wizard that doesn't throw fireballs and magic missles because that's what he thinks they should be doing, he also stops any cleric that doesn't wear full plate and wield a mace, nor specialize in healing. he stops any druid that doesn't hug trees, any bard that doesn't sing, or any convention he holds sacred.
, my dm creates a special creature to cripple them. or a special on the fly rule.
This should give you every right to starting chucking core rule books at the DM. I can't stand inconsistency, and random house rules.
, my dm creates a special creature to cripple them. or a special on the fly rule.This should give you every right to starting chucking core rule books at the DM. I can't stand inconsistency, and random house rules.
he only does this with my exotic and unconventional casters though. because he comprehends little outside of his personal tropes. he doesn't like the casters i play because he doesn't know what mold they are fit upon. most of my casters use splatbooks to get wierd flavors that my DM doesn't like because they are not plain vanilla cookie cutter cut outs.
It sounds like you need to find a new DM.
It sounds like you need to find a new DM.
unfortunately he is the closest DM to where i live that is willing to accept me in his group. organized play is too rigid. and i like artistic, creative play, and my DM likes his pre made cookie cutter tropes. quite a few times, i have broken the flavor of his setting. he is also the best DM i could find. a few others i have had issues with for breaking the flavor of thier settings. i have had to adapt to his taste a little more. i like storytelling, numbers, creativity, and freedom to specific degrees, this DM works fine in storytelling and numbers. the latter 2 he has a grudgingly hard time, and any game breaking quissinarts i made were purely accidental. (most of what i made in the past)
You need to change your strategy. You're a wizard. If you can't find a spell to keep you out of the arms of the baddies, then that feat sure as heck won't help you.
You get a ton of battlefield control spells. Use them to protect yourself. Use fog clouds, black tentacles, web, grease, and wall spells to keep the enemy away. Misdirect them with images, ghost sounds, hypnotic patterns, invisibility, and mirror image. When all else fails get the heck out of Dodge. Dimension door, fly, levitate, expeditious retreat your hiney out of there.
Just to make a statement, don't even prepare any blast spells.
You've got a giant bag of tricks. If your GM won't let you use them then it's time for a new group, unless you like only using 1/100th of your class potential.
Edit: Also, have you tried talking with him about the way he's running the game? Explain that he's ruining the game for you by not allowing you to play the way you want despite it being fully supported by the rules. There's a reason that there are more schools than just evocation.
Another option is this: Ask the DM how he would build an effective wizard for his game, and take it down in writing. That should let you use those tactics without impedance.
You need to change your strategy. You're a wizard. If you can't find a spell to keep you out of the arms of the baddies, then that feat sure as heck won't help you.
You get a ton of battlefield control spells. Use them to protect yourself. Use fog clouds, black tentacles, web, grease, and wall spells to keep the enemy away. Misdirect them with images, ghost sounds, hypnotic patterns, invisibility, and mirror image. When all else fails get the heck out of Dodge. Dimension door, fly, levitate, expeditious retreat your hiney out of there.
Just to make a statement, don't even prepare any blast spells.
You've got a giant bag of tricks. If your GM won't let you use them then it's time for a new group, unless you like only using 1/100th of your class potential.
Edit: Also, have you tried talking with him about the way he's running the game? Explain that he's ruining the game for you by not allowing you to play the way you want despite it being fully supported by the rules. There's a reason that there are more schools than just evocation.
any time a PC breaks one of conventions, he considers anything "non traditional" to be an attempt at "Cheese" he is very superstitious about the characters he allows. he banned laptops from the table because of his fear of online cheese. he has a fear of "Cheesy" Characters. he also has a skewed sense of balance. he is afraid of anything non traditional but grudgingly accepts them after enough negotiation, only to cripple the non traditional characters. in fact, he is stingy with party wealth.
his security blanket is "Cripple The Exotic Caster"
And what does he say when you confront him about this?
Edit: and get him to clarify on cheese. If you're using core spells as intended straight out of the book, ask him what grounds he has for not liking them?
And what does he say when you confront him about this?
Edit: and get him to clarify on cheese. If you're using core spells as intended straight out of the book, ask him what grounds he has for not liking them?
he is quite dodgy about it, his answer is "it's cheesy and i don't like it" he even says it whilst shivering in fear, stuttering and clattering his teeth like that Craven Coward named Shaggy off of that Scoobie Doo Cartoon.
i beleive he has a blurred perception of "Cheesy" and "Exotic", mixing the 2.
Try going invisible before fights, provided you're not fighting nothing but outsiders you should be able to slap down a decent save or suck or buff, then let the other guys take care of things.
Try going invisible before fights, provided you're not fighting nothing but outsiders you should be able to slap down a decent save or suck or buff, then let the other guys take care of things.
unfortunately invisibility is not in this particular wizard's spellbook. it was in the spellbook of a particular other wizard from a different campaign. i stopped bothering when he used his "special monsters" to cripple the spell. we do fight a lot of outsiders, and a lot of giants too.
I'm going to have to agree; you need a new DM. This one just sounds like a paranoid, close-minded fool who can't accept roleplaying or anything interesting at all.
Check out some lower-level CharOp stuff for spell suggestions; I'm to sleepy to think of anything except scorching ray, invisibility, web, fly, enervation, black tentacles, dimension door, summoning, and enlarge (for the fighters).
"unfortunately invisibility is not in this particular wizard's spellbook."
Well, get it, and if he pulls anything blatantly illegal to counter it, threaten to leave if he doesn't stop.
it was either accept the paranoid close minded fool, not play the game at all, or accept a loose game that may never happen.
he may be paranoid and closed minded, but at least he has a few redeeming qualities that keep me in his group. most of my "Cheese" accidentally was "Cheese". so i accidentally broke a few of his games, he is giving a pretty normal reaction to a game breaker, (a few made by sheer accident) i beleive it is pretty standard to be freaked out if several days worth of of your planning went down the drain from an accident. if you spent several days on end planning for the next game session, just for it to be accidentelly flushed down the drain by an innocent use of a single rarely used spell? i think you would homebrew similar monsters too and exploit Fiat to compensate for the fact that a player ruined a lot of your planning. even if it was an accident. i learned to look past his close minded paranoia. i actually accidentally broke a few of his games. he may have overreacted, but who hasn't?
He might need to learn the game better if one spell breaks an encounter. I do feel bad for you though. I love creative players.
I am not trying to accuse you of anything, but what exactly are you doing that is so exotic? If he wants you to be the super traditional caster, why let you use books outside core? You are throwing a lot of generic stereotypes at your DM that make myself and everyone else want to take your side, but you have yet to say exactly what you are doing.
edit: And if he hates the exotic so much what makes you think casting with your feet will be alright in his eyes.
I want to play a tap-dancing wizard now. :P
heres a few example characters from the last 2 years
Hitomi Shuisei. she was flavored as an "Ame Warashi" or "Rain Spirit". she created storms, even indoors or underground, she also exploited the "Water Conducts Electricity" thing, by creating a Raining Thunderstorm every fight she could, or at least make it rain, she used the her weather manipulation to her advantage. she could make it rain, even indoors or underground, for a pretty long time, and her "Taboo" (Shugenja had them too) was that she couldn't step within 10 feet of a sunflower or be denied access to her spells for an hour. mechanically she was an "Air Shugenja". she was a portable weather machine. DM got destroyed by his own ruling. being completely soaked in water treated any electricity spell cast against you as empowered.
Dimitri Molotov, Lets just say he tried to remove every annoying mundane human limitation he had. He was a Human Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 4 with kind of an intended mad scientist flavor. if you have seen the anime series "Bleach" think, of Mayuri Kurotsuchi. Dimitri was always several steps ahead, had a reserve feat that almost negated the need to prepare rays or orbs, he replaced his body with prosthectics, his familiar/daughter/apprentice/opposite sexed clone named Freya Molotov, did all the installallation and tune up. he used buffs, save or sucks, save or dies, sneak attack enchanced acidic splatters, and a lot of seemingly tame spell compendium stuff. the only "Sustenance" he needed was a "tune up" from little miss Freya, who was his familiar/daughter/apprentice/opposite sexed clone/personal mechanic. Freya could easily pass herself off as a 10 year old girl, if it weren't for a variety of similarities to her father. she had the looks of a 10 year old girl, but mentally, she was just like daddy. in every way. Freya was more like Dimitri's "free personal mechanic" than anything.
Kira Moonsong, She was aroused by thunderstorms since she was little,
unlike most grey elves who walked the wizard path, her family was more inclined towards sorcery, her great, great, great, great, great, grandfather was a kobold adopted by a pair of grey elves and the source of her family's sorcerous blood. her kobold ancestor broke the sound barrier in speed and bellowed roars that were more damaging than any dragon's breath weapon. Kira, in an attempt to emulate her ancestor developed a similar affinity with sound. Kira did boatloads of sonic damage.
Luminiere Del Solaras I, an angelic blooded priestess of Sarenrae, she wore a white ankle length robe over a mithril shirt, she carried an espada ropera, (i reflavored the shortsword) bearing upon the blade, an epitaph devoted to Nualia. her mother was a living saint. Lumi attempted to fence and showed mediocre proficiency. but her primary calling was healing, both mundane and magical. she had cross class ranks in tumble and perform (Dance) and had the intention of becoming a Dawnflower Dervish of Sarenrae. she died before this idea was realized. but she got her other wish, becoming a true angel. but not through the means she intended. Lumi was more of a healbot than anything, she used buffs too. mostly to overcome the fact that she was a frail little girl. most of her buffs were to make her frailness less of an issue, either by turning the fighter types into uber tanks or summon archons, she was a pacifist and worked around her vows by using others to fight for her. but never as an act of aggression, only in self defense.
i realized that most of these characters weren't cheesy after all. it's more i cheesed out thier flavor than thier power. and that they accidentally through an innocent use of a spell broke a few sessions. during my lucky streaks, which were just that, my lucky streaks. my dm has nights were he rolls 6 confirmed crits in a row, i had wierd stuff like that happen too. i'm sure everyone has had a moment that broke the laws of probability before.
Well, with the DM's water rule, the first character really does appear overpowered. So does the second, quite possibly. The third seems tame, as sonic is usually d4s, and the fourth you didn't really tell us about in mechanical terms at all.
the fourth one (Lumi) mostly healed the living in various ways with the occasional buff or summoned celestial.
she was 65% healbot 25% buffer 10% summoner.
most of her summons were lantern archons. she was a cleric of sarenrae. with the healing domain. her other domain was the 3.5 sun domain. she had angelic blood, just not enough to be an aasimaar. her summons were mainly used to stave off defeat. and thus rarley used.
the 3rd (Kira) researched sonic spells that dealt d6's without any adjustment from the spell they were based off of than the research fees.
she used sonic sphere instead of fireball (take fireball, change to sonic with no adjusmtment in dice type or level, with no material component, learning costed her 3,000 gold)
sound arrow (do the above to scorching ray, cost 2,000 gold)
cone of sound (do the above to cone of cold, cost 5,000 gold)
The way you are describing it any amount of cheese you brought to the campaign was the fault of him specifically allowing it. Bad decisions by the DM shouldn't be blamed on the player, I myself have allowed a player use of a feat that was overpowering and had to admit mistake not blame it on the player cheesing the character. The water rule was his mistake, hard to say anything about the rogue, the sorcerer seems like your average blaster, even with researched spells, especially if he was allowing the Energy Substitution feats from complete arcane which would allow a wizard to do the same thing. Although I don't see how a sorcerer could "research" anything given that it isn't the way the class works. You played a typical healer.
Seems to me that you are probably playing with a hack and slash DM/group and you want to be in a more character/RP based game.
Seems to me that you are probably playing with a hack and slash DM/group and you want to be in a more character/RP based game.
i think that may be it. my group is too hack and slash, we have a bunch of casual hack and slashers alongside RPGA rules lawyer combat junkies.
You may need to look for another game or start your own. Mr. Fishy encourage flavorful character as they make the NPC's look normal.
Mr. Fishy has "broken" a few games, in his day. We paid for all of those scrolls! The mage (incharacter) screamed do what she (female druid) says she ain't bluffing...good times...13th level fighter 3 rds.
You could be a jerk and show your DM real cheese. Or you could talk to the rest of the party. Someone else may be having a problem in the group.
GOOD LUCK!