Many of the AP's are influenced by this fiction. If they make a Pathfinder Modern I hope it rings closer to that style rather then "modern D&D."
Creative Director
|
Would love to see Paizo's take on the Mythos.
We've put STRONG Lovecraft mythos elements into:
Rise of the Runelords (particularly parts 4 and 6)
Legacy of Fire (part 3)
Crucible of Chaos
Carrion Hill
Into the Darklands
Curse of the Crimson Throne (part 5)
And there'll be a few more Lovecraftian surprises in the upcoming Bestiary 2.
|
I think one of the main problems with converting C'thulhu stuff to Pathfinder/D&D is the whole view of reality; in Call of C'thulhu it's all absolutely hopeless. Everybody dies or goes insane. This happens to the investigators, and will ultimately happen to the world.
The whole fabric of reality is predicated on this cosmic railroad.
Pathfinder/D&D is structured differently, a little closer to Howard than Lovecraft. At least you get the feeling that the protagonist has some hope of succeeding in the end, and the universe isn't doomed to failure and madness. It could be, but there's hope.....
Small doses of Lovecraft's bleak hopelessness, though, can be fun.
I would agree that 'classic' adventuring is different from the spirit of Mythos adventuring.
The 'standard' group of adventuring players do not want to see their characters 'fail', die, tainted (mutated or scarred in some horrible unrecoverable way), or insane.
While I might argue that many heroes of myth would be improved with an additional eye, tentacle, third arm, or just an extra gas ejector; more people would see these things as detractors.
Games like Call of Cthuhlu and Paranoia are unusual compared to most gaming is that the players accept that success is not defined in terms of a 'destruction' of the 'Great Evil' but in staying alive a few days longer.
If you have a group of people that are willing to play in a non-utopian style game where they accepting that their actions really won't change the reality then you can do Lovecraftian style of gaming with anything.
Lovecraft wrote several stories featuring nothing more 'wierd' than witches or ghouls. Opponents in the classic story of 'Call of Cthuhlu' are nothing more than cannibals in a swamp which look a lot like hill billies or cajan.
You don't need some creature with several tentacles, a variety of insect parts, and a couple of organs unknown to botany to make something Lovecraftian. The creation of such creatures is often a different coloured monster skin suit for heroes to beat upon. Any DM wanting that could take any monster from the bestiary and just redescribe it or modify and existing monster by adding a few extra parts like a template. That doesn't make Lovecraft.
It is the same way that vampires, liches, and mummies do not make Ravenloft.
Horror gaming and Mythos gaming are styles of gaming where players agree to suffer. The agreement is important otherwise you can have horrible things happen as players revolt with their dropping of interest at the game table or walking out the door (or just not showing up to the next game session).
|
Creative Director
|
Lovecraft also wrote a large number of actual fantasy stories set in Earth's Dreamlands. Stories like "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" feel VERY MUCH like a fantasy RPG at time, what with its explorations of dungeons and rallying of armies to fight wars and all that.
And even some of his "real world" mythos stories are pretty high adventure with heroes who save the day. "The Dunwich Horror" is a great example.
AKA: Lovecraft's writing is a lot more complex and varied than "Humans are irrelevant and the outer tentacled darkness will crush us all like ants." It just so happens that those stories are the ones he's most famous for.
|
|
Two more things:
In "D&D land" there's a host of deities who run the gamut of alignments who, depending on who you ask, observe a cosmic detente of sorts. For the most part, the fundamentals and biological entities of creation are safe from their predations and infighting barring the intermittent "Age of Worms" or "War With the Demon Queen of Chaos" that crops up every once in a while, ideally to be turned aside by the strange band of ubermensche who through means mundane and magical stand up to these wicked leviathans.
In "Lovecraft country," the best you can hope from the "divine" is that they don't notice you, or they aren't totally immune to bullets; perhaps they are harmed by some device that you can sacrifice your sanity/physical ownership of a skeletal system to.
In "D&D land" there are classes of humans who actively practice and control the forces of supernature to cause all sorts of effects from charming persons to fireballing to making wishes. They are so sophisticated at doing this that it merely taxes a daily reserve, sometimes their experience points. This usage generally does not harm them in any other way if they follow the regimented system of casting spells that they can understand at their level of experience.
In "Lovecraft country," this is far from the truth. Magic at best drains your physical health a little bit. At worst.....that is open to debate. It's utilization is generally left to the deranged, either mentally, physically, spiritually, or some combination thereof.
I must agree with James Jacobs; these are not universal trends, though they are typical.
Opponents in the classic story of 'Call of Cthuhlu' are nothing more than cannibals in a swamp which look a lot like hill billies or cajan.
Hear that, Daigle? I tol'ya us "cajans" weren't none better lookin' than dem' damn hillbellies.
Paizo's upcoming module From Shore to Sea has a touch of the mythos, if I may be so bold as to plug my own product. Heroes here might be able to pull off a victory against a forgotten Dark Tapestry horror and finally put an end to some shoreline inbreeding if they play their cards right!
Not bad for an ugly swamp-bred cannibal! =-)
Brandon
I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;) Or, with all the reworkings of the Mythos into other systems, a new version of the d20 CoC game? I know I'd love to see one (and plan on fusing some ideas from PF into my next d20 CoC game) ;)
I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;)
By Shub-Niggurath, that's a great idea! Horrors of the Dark Tapestry Revisited.
+ 100,000,000,000 !By Shub-Niggurath, that's a great idea! Horrors of the Dark Tapestry Revisited.+2
What they said.
|
Creative Director
|
I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;) Or, with all the reworkings of the Mythos into other systems, a new version of the d20 CoC game? I know I'd love to see one (and plan on fusing some ideas from PF into my next d20 CoC game) ;)
There's absolutely a chance of such a book happening. Not a big chance of a new version of d20 CoC though.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
|
I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;) Or, with all the reworkings of the Mythos into other systems, a new version of the d20 CoC game? I know I'd love to see one (and plan on fusing some ideas from PF into my next d20 CoC game) ;)There's absolutely a chance of such a book happening. Not a big chance of a new version of d20 CoC though.
What about PFCoC?
|
Creative Director
|
What about PFCoC?I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;) Or, with all the reworkings of the Mythos into other systems, a new version of the d20 CoC game? I know I'd love to see one (and plan on fusing some ideas from PF into my next d20 CoC game) ;)There's absolutely a chance of such a book happening. Not a big chance of a new version of d20 CoC though.
Also unlikely. Because I honestly think that the current BRP system that Chaosium uses for CoC is far superior for that game than the d20 system could ever be.
I really enjoyed the True20 book Shadows of Cthulhu. Not exactly Pathfinder CoC, but True 20 is d20 based and it wouldn't be hard to integrate some of the ideas into a Pathfinder game.
|
Also unlikely. Because I honestly think that the current BRP system that Chaosium uses for CoC is far superior for that game than the d20 system could ever be.
Agreed. CoC doesn't need a level-based system. The BRP skill-based system is definitely the way to go for a fully Mythos-based game.
That being said, I would definitely love a "Horrors of the Dark Tapestry Revisited" supplement. Great title, by the way.
|
Creative Director
|
Also unlikely. Because I honestly think that the current BRP system that Chaosium uses for CoC is far superior for that game than the d20 system could ever be.Agreed. CoC doesn't need a level-based system. The BRP skill-based system is definitely the way to go for a fully Mythos-based game.
That being said, I would definitely love a "Horrors of the Dark Tapestry Revisited" supplement. Great title, by the way.
A Dark Tapestry book wouldn't be part of the revisited line. It'd be more like "Into the Darklands" or the upcoming "Heart of the Jungle" books, I suspect. Especially since the Dark Tapestry has never been visited in the first palce... makes no sense that its first book would be a revisitation...
|
|
I'm happy to hear that the Bestiary II will have some Lovecraftian goodies :D Any chance that we might see a Lovecraft Revisited book eventually? ;) Or, with all the reworkings of the Mythos into other systems, a new version of the d20 CoC game? I know I'd love to see one (and plan on fusing some ideas from PF into my next d20 CoC game) ;)There's absolutely a chance of such a book happening.
+1. Sweet.
I would buy Lovecraftian Horrors Revisited in a heartbeat.
While I have very fond memories and a deep respect for Chaosiums Call of Cthulhu rpg, my absolute favorite system for CoC is Trail of Cthulhu. Of course I love to insert some Lovecraftian terror into almost any game I play. I hope Paizo continues their fine tradition of putting Mythos elements in their products it's one of the little things that sets Pathfinder apart from other fantasy rpg's IMO.
While I have very fond memories and a deep respect for Chaosiums Call of Cthulhu rpg, my absolute favorite system for CoC is Trail of Cthulhu. Of course I love to insert some Lovecraftian terror into almost any game I play. I hope Paizo continues their fine tradition of putting Mythos elements in their products it's one of the little things that sets Pathfinder apart from other fantasy rpg's IMO.
Really? After several failed attempts at getting a Cthulhu group together over the years, I was finally able to play both CoC and ToC at OwlCon this past weekend. I have to say, I far preferred the BRP version. Of course that could be due to the Keepers styles. The ToC guy was good, but not fully prepared. He hadn't even finished our character sheets by the time we were supposed to start. The guy running the CoC game was less familiar with the rules, but was really good at setting the tone and pace. I can honestly say I had flutters of nervous fear as we explored the abandoned town trying to figure out if we were hunters or hunted.
I'll be playing both games again when the opportunity presents itself, but as for preference, I'll take CoC.
I gave a player nightmares with a CoC game. I miss it...
I gave a player nightmares with a CoC game. I miss it...
I've done that a couple of times.
I have to admit that I tend to get more former players talking of past CoC games then most any other game that I have run.
I would also put my support to Trail of Cthulhu. I've used it now three times to run adventures and it is a great system for focusing on the story and not getting caught up in skill rolls that could mess up a story.
My latest usage of the ToC system involved a linkage between Al Capone and Harry Houdini.
|
|
A Dark Tapestry book wouldn't be part of the revisited line. It'd be more like "Into the Darklands" or the upcoming "Heart of the Jungle" books, I suspect. Especially since the Dark Tapestry has never been visited in the first palce... makes no sense that its first book would be a revisitation...
Would such a book be primarily focused on the horribly entities that you would find out in the Dark Tapestry, or would there be a split between that and looking at the various ways that one can explore the Dark Tapestry, and perhaps a closer look at Golarion's own star system (and maybe one or two nearby systems as well)?
Pathjammer confirmed ?
EDIT: And wouldn't d20 Call of Cthulhu count as something of a first visitation? Not of the Dark Tapestry, per say, but definately of the Horrors of the Dark Tapestry.