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Anyone remember when I made this declaration about having some stuff that I was working on to use with Pathfinder? Anyone? Really? No? Oh good...Well if you have, My original claim was that I'd have an Alpha playtest ready for the Beta release so I could try shopping it out at Gen Con Indy that year.
Yeah, that didn't work out. So I shot for the game's release and...this past January I finally had the alpha ready for the races. The class ideas I came up with, I'm still working on two of them. the rest are either in the process of drastic revisions or have been completely abandoned. I also cut out an alternate spellpoint system that just wasn't working.
So, I'm about to have this trimmed down project in a full alpha playtest and it occurred to me: I know jack about the business side of roleplaying games. Most of this is stuff from my homebrew that I've wanted to share with others over the years. I'd still like to make some money off of it, but am totally at a loss as to how to do it.
I'm really just shooting in the dark here, hopoing Lewis, Wolfgang, or a couple of the rest of you that have been successful could give me some advice.
To the folks at Paizo, I figure this is probably in the wrong place and for that I apologize. I just want to put out something that doesn't look like a ten-year-old did it.
So, I'm about to have this trimmed down project in a full alpha playtest and it occurred to me: I know jack about the business side of roleplaying games. Most of this is stuff from my homebrew that I've wanted to share with others over the years. I'd still like to make some money off of it, but am totally at a loss as to how to do it.I'm really just shooting in the dark here, hopoing Lewis, Wolfgang, or a couple of the rest of you that have been successful could give me some advice.
OK, first question, are you doing these for fun, fame and funds (cash money)?
Yeah. I'd say the first real step is to identify why you're doing it. I want to jump into the game myself and have been working pretty quietly on some Asian-themed Pathfinder-compatible fare.
I promised myself I'd only work on it if it brought me "continued joy" and, as I have gone along, I've realized that I like bits of it more (flavor, art, and generally creative aspects) and bits of it less (statblocks, mechanics, etc.) so my enthusiasm has waned at times.
As I make progress I've realized that I may not want to actually do this for money, though I do actually have some related experience making money from published product (just not in the games business). Maybe take the weight off of yourself. Do something small and completable (is that even a word?). Doesn't matter if you give it away, sell it, "shareware" it, or whatever...just *get it done*.
I wager it'll give you energy for something longer. Hope that helps.
M
BTW, here's how I've spent some of my time...a lot of time, actually: city map.
BTW, here's how I've spent some of my time...a lot of time, actually: city map.
That map looks great!
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BTW, here's how I've spent some of my time...a lot of time, actually: city map.
Let me also chime in with praise for that map. That's a professional quality map, and if your flavor/art/generally creative aspects come even close to that level of quality, you should find someone to do the statblocks/mechanics/etc. to match so you can put otu what looks to be an amazing product.
Owen K.C. Stephens
Super Genius Games
BTW, here's how I've spent some of my time...a lot of time, actually: city map.
That is one pretty map!
Wow. Thanks guys. Much appreciated.
@James Stephens 4: Sorry, bro, had no intention of thread-jacking you. Just wanted to inspire. So, show us your stuff already. :)
M
Indeed, that map is an inspiration.
to the OP question.
Without knowing more about the product, its size, its scope, its target market, if you already have artwork, layout, play-testers, etc... there is no way to tell you what to do.
Knowing your longterm goals for the project is a good place to start, but after that write up a business plan. Even with no knowlledge of the market,its easier to give advice pointing out the flaws in a plan than it is for me to teach you what its taken me 3 years to learn.
Steve Russell
Rite Publishing
I'm really just shooting in the dark here, hopoing Lewis, Wolfgang, or a couple of the rest of you that have been successful could give me some advice.
You might want to take a look at this thread. It covers a lot of the questions you have.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
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OK, first question, are you doing these for fun, fame and funds (cash money)?
Well let's see here....Fun? Yes, roleplaying has been my favorite hobby/addiction over the years and some of this stuff I have been tinkering with since I was 15. You don't keep doing this stuff if you don't enjoy it.
Fame? I could take it or leave it. I mean it'd be nice to see my name on something other than a rejection letter, but I really just want people to have fun with my stuff.
Funds? I have to say it would be nice to get paid for this. I mean I'm 33 and Some compensation for the work I've put in this stuff would be nice. On the other hand, I'm such a nitpicker that I don't think starting my own company is the way to go either. As I said, I was thinking of shopping this stuff out to other publishers at one point.
Without knowing more about the product, its size, its scope, its target market, if you already have artwork, layout, play-testers, etc... there is no way to tell you what to do.
Knowing your longterm goals for the project is a good place to start, but after that write up a business plan. Even with no knowlledge of the market,its easier to give advice pointing out the flaws in a plan than it is for me to teach you what its taken me 3 years to learn.
The project is more of a chap book, like the Pathfinder Chronicles books. Its mostly bits and pieces that I've had in my games for years, updated for Pathfinder (From 2nd, 3rd, 3.5,etc) And given some text. I have no art and everyartist that I have tried to work with has either ended up calling me crazy or taking what they worked on and selling it someplace else.
On the bright side, I've learned the value of not working with friends on something that you are putting way more effort into then they are.
So there you go.
Hope that helps with the advice.
James
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How's this for an example of what I'm doing?
Sileni (Horse Folk)
Sileni (both singular and plural) are one of the true enigmas of the known lands. A proud warrior society, they have never raided any of the other races lands. Obviously to most to have been descended from horses, they live most of their lives on the sea. Their people are almost without exception passionate and gregarious, yet they are less prone to quarrel than even the Halflings. To an outsider, the Sileni seem a race of contradictions, and many Sileni see that as the way of things, because the other races are just as puzzling to them.
Physical description: Sileni stand between six and seven feet tall, with powerful barrel chests, two strong equine legs, Two equally strong arms, ending in four digit hands, and a very horse like head. They are covered in a fine pelt-like hair that ranges in color from pale white to Blue-black and every shade in between, with a matching mane coming down from the top of their heads. Their eyes run from shades of blue to brown with an occasional grey or green.
Society: Matriarchal by nature, the Sileni life is often regimented around their ships, with a female captain in charge of a crew consisting of seventy to eighty Sileni of both genders. Each ship is part of a fleet which answers to a matron, and each matron in turn answers by tradition to a council of Marshals that in turn answer to the Great Matron.
Relations:
Alignment and Religion: Sileni have what many believe to be a contradicting belief in passion and precission. Through these principles, all Sileni find their way in life. Therefore, there are almost no chaotic Sileni, though those that exist are most likely adventures. Most Sileni venerate the Great Mother, the progenitor of their race and for whom there is no real organized religion. Most religious orders among the Sileni are made up of Druids and Oracles.
Adventures: As most if not all roles in the Sileni governing system are controlled by women (even the title of Nobility is Mare), many male Sileni set out on a life of adventuring in an effort to find a place for themselves. Some female Sileni also set out through the known lands in an attempt to prove themselves outside of a system that panders to one gender over another. These journeys are seen by elders as often youthful impulsiveness that once run out will cause these children to come back to the way things always have been.
Male Names: Astaban, Basilio, Co’re, Dimas, Iago, Oldan.
Female Names: Avella, Casila, Elfiena, Lurina, Reina, Zarita
Sileni Racial Traits
+2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom, Appearance 2d8. Sileni are physically strong and filled with a definite sense of self. However, their self confidence often borders on arrogance, often causing them to act impetuously and foolishly trust.
Medium Size: Sileni are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Sileni have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low Light Vision: Sileni can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Sharp Eyes: Sileni receive a +2 to perception checks involving sight.
Powerful Build: Sileni are able to use weapons one size category larger than themselves without penalty.
Corsair Blood: Sileni are born on the seas and as such Swim and Profession (Sailor) checks have a +2 bonus. These skills are always class skills.
Hale: Sileni Receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poisons, diseases, and fatigue.
Languages: Sileni begin play knowing Sileni and Common. Sileni with high intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Aquan, Celestial, and Hr’Akir.
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I'd like to drop in and say that I like the example a lot, and this is coming from somebody who usually has a bad knee-jerk reaction to any anthropomorphic PC races in fantasy games. Can't explain my dislike, but it was well written, worded, and edited.
I can't give you any industry advice, but I say keep writing and go for it. With some more work material (such as racial feats or weapons, maybe a few NPC stats, stuff like that) I could see that holding its own alongside any of the $1-5 small-scale PDFs available online detailing a race, class, et cetera.
I'm curious about the magnitude of material you've got put together and/or are planning on having. Are we talking Campaign Setting scale, or races/classes that can be plopped into existing campaigns, or somewhere between? I think that answer would help those who can give industry advice out a lot, too.
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I'd like to drop in and say that I like the example a lot, and this is coming from somebody who usually has a bad knee-jerk reaction to any anthropomorphic PC races in fantasy games. Can't explain my dislike, but it was well written, worded, and edited.
I can't give you any industry advice, but I say keep writing and go for it. With some more work material (such as racial feats or weapons, maybe a few NPC stats, stuff like that) I could see that holding its own alongside any of the $1-5 small-scale PDFs available online detailing a race, class, et cetera.
I'm curious about the magnitude of material you've got put together and/or are planning on having. Are we talking Campaign Setting scale, or races/classes that can be plopped into existing campaigns, or somewhere between? I think that answer would help those who can give industry advice out a lot, too.
Well, thank you. Like I said above, I was thinking something of a chap book, like the Pathfinder Chronicles books in size. Most of this is stuff that can be dropped into an existing campaign. I have about six to eight races, about four classes that I'm focusing on. lots of feats(Racial, Class, and some fun ones that sprang to mind), and some spells that have been wandering around my world.
Could it be expanded into a campaign setting? I know several of my friends that have played in my games would love that answer to be yes, but I'm more than content to see what others do with my inventions.
Besides, the secrets of my campaign world would make Lovecraft wince.
So, apologies, I misunderstood (or didn't read well enough) your first post. It seems you already have the content. Are you completely stymied on the next steps?
It sounds like you want to work with a publisher that's going to be able to take care of art, layout, etc. Have you shown it around at all? Might be worth preparing a 'prospectus' of the product with a summary, TOC, sample content, what you need from them to get the product ready to publish, etc. and mailing that around to publishers you think you might want to work with on the project.
M
It sounds like you want to work with a publisher that's going to be able to take care of art, layout, etc. Have you shown it around at all? Might be worth preparing a 'prospectus' of the product with a summary, TOC, sample content, what you need from them to get the product ready to publish, etc. and mailing that around to publishers you think you might want to work with on the project.
Is this what you are looking for James?
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I'm thinking it may be now that I've looked at it. All of you have put up some great advice. I think it is just getting to that pint where I need another set of eyes and actual experience with editing to look at it. As my wife puts it, I'm more head in the clouds than feet in reality.
I'm more of the "hey this sounds like a cool idea," kind of person and once I've figured out how to do it want to work on the next project. It sounds kinda sad, but I don't normally think of how to package or market it. Even the working title for my little project was just two words that evoked some feeling in me: Shadows Aubade.
James
I'm thinking it may be now that I've looked at it. All of you have put up some great advice. I think it is just getting to that pint where I need another set of eyes and actual experience with editing to look at it. As my wife puts it, I'm more head in the clouds than feet in reality.
I'm more of the "hey this sounds like a cool idea," kind of person and once I've figured out how to do it want to work on the next project. It sounds kinda sad, but I don't normally think of how to package or market it. Even the working title for my little project was just two words that evoked some feeling in me: Shadows Aubade.
James
Why don you email me directly at LMPjr007 at aol.com and we can speak on this further and more detail.
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okay, wow....*blink blink*.
In case any of you are wondering about my sporadic answers, I don't have internet at home at the moment and am relying on the kindness of friends and the obliviousness of my job to check this site and answer posts. Which generally means that I am only able to check back between 5 and 9 pm monday through friday and a couple hours on the weekend or when I can catch a friend at home.
Again, thanks for all the great advice and the great comments on what I've posted.
James