I noticed the PFSRD conversion doesn't give Nualia's second hand any malus on the claw attack.
Even if I consider the bastard sword a primary weapon attack and the claw a secondary attack, shouldn't i get some penalties?
My calculations brought me to these numbers
*Melee* +1 bastard sword +12 ? (1d10+7/19-20), claw +? (1d6+3); with divine favor and bull's strength
*Melee* +1 bastard sword +11 ? (1d10+9/19-20), claw +? (1d6+5); with divine favor and bull's strength and Power Attack
According to the PRPG her claw is a secondary attack and therefore takes a -5 penalty unless she takes the multiattack feat.
In Burt Offerings her attacks are listed as:
Melee +1 bastard sword +9 (1d10+4/18–20) and claw +2 (1d6+1)
Nualia has:
+4 BAB, Str 16 (+3), Weapon Focus (+1), +1 enhancement from weapon. That totals +9 to hit and +4 damage for the bastard sword(one-handed).
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+4 BAB, Str 16 (+3), -5 for secundary attack. That totals +2 to hit and +1 damage for the claw.
As far as I see all is correct in the AP1 except for the threat range of the bastard sword, which should be 19-20.
With bull's strength and divine favor that is:
Melee +1 bastard sword+12 (1d10+7/19–20) and claw +5 (1d6+3)
With power attack, bull's strength and divine favor that is:
Melee +1 bastard sword+10 (1d10+11/19–20) and claw +3 (1d6+5)
If Nualia chose to attack only with her bastard sword it would be:
Melee +1 bastard sword+10 (1d10+15/19–20)
You might notice that your Power Attack calculation is a bit off as it is -2/+4 at BAB +4.
As it is there are no penalties for attacking with the primary weapon, only with the secondary one.
EDIT: the only argument for her not using the weapon two-handed is of course that she is an insane follower of a godess of madness :D
Ouch! That's going to be a nasty encounter.
Thanks for clarifications, I didn't think of the Power Attack raise actually.
I just wonder why the other encounters in the dungeon are so "light" then. This is possibly the only one that will give them some problems I think.
They still have to meet Orik and Bruthazmus, but I foresee both encounters will be finished quite fast, as my party is made up of four characters (among which a 18 str barbarian with Cleave feat and the masterwork ranseur from Alaznist's statue). Even thinking about optimizing both encounters I cannot just plain cheat. If the characters are going to burst into Bruthazmus's harem while he doesn't even have his weapons at hand, he will be dead far before he even manage to sheat a weapon. Same is worth for Orik.
Have you planned some means to make the other encounters a little bit deadlier? The encounter with Lyrie ended in 2 rounds with the party completely unscathed.
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I was thinking of having Bruthazmus, a sly Bugbear ranger with very fine senses, actually hearing the characters without them knowing it, and riddling the whole dungeon with traps, playing guerrilla tactics since he knows the environment pretty well. Maybe he could lead the characters to the tentamort lair, in the meantime shooting at them with arrows from the corridors.
Have you planned some means to make the other encounters a little bit deadlier? The encounter with Lyrie ended in 2 rounds with the party completely unscathed.
Yesterday my second RotRL group faced Orik and Bruthazmus and I used same trick tat I used with first group. If players make too much noises or someone makes alarm call these two guys go to hallway that leads their bedrooms and wait. When players open the door Bruthazmus [or Tsuto if he isn't captured] shoot arrow at the opener and runs behind the corner. PC's tend to run before acrhers but enemies are smarter than them. Orik is waiting behind the corner with his power attack [readied action to hit when some comes behind the corner]. Now they are in trouble because Orik has awesome AC and he hits hard and PC's have fight him one on one. If they have archers they really can't do anything because Orik has cover from another PC's. Only thing which makes this encouter easy is that Orik doesn't have enough will power to resist spells like sleep or charm person.
My first group faced Tsuto and Oric combo which worked like dream because in Glassworks Tsuto almost killed the person who opened the doot. Same thing almost happened in Thistletop when that PC opened the door. Still it wasn't too hard beacause they were level three that time. Second group wasn't so lucky [second level]. Orik hit TWF ranger to negatives with two hits and he didn't take any damage. Sorcerer had to use scroll of sleep to make Orik less dangerous. Almost two PCs went to negatives only Shalelus cure wand kept halforc fighter standing on his feets. Last PC's think that Orik is too dangerous to keep alive so when he was helpless they coup de graced him. Sadly he was their best source of information.
That however implies that they had time to assemble and organize a tactic. My characters are quite devious as they always send the rogue a few feet further, to sneak behind doors and listen to noises. So far they've been able to silently kill all the goblins on the surface.
I assumed that even the climax battle against the goblin king was unheard below ground, since the dungeon is well insulated from noises by several feet of rock.
However since I want to play fair, I was re-reading accurately the Perception skill description, please let me know if I misinterpreted it.
Bruthazmus is "busy" in area D2 while battle erupts as the characters storm in the corridor that connects area D14 with area D13 (Lyrie opened the door from area D15 when she heard the other door being battered).
There are three doors betweem them and area D2, and 14 squares of corridors. That calls for a DC 19 Perception check (-10+15+14).
Is it correct? How do you calculate distance for Per rolls, just as like movement? If Bruthazmus makes the check, I would make him call Orik and prepare a tactic similar to yours. I was just wondering where exactly you mean to ambush the party, in the corridor that leads to the "longshanks" rooms or inside one of those?
Also, Lyrie has been brought to -9 hp and made stable by the cleric through an orizon. She is now unconscious. If they're not able to bring her to +1 hp, should they wait a full hour before Lyrie can chck if she becomes conscious?
One last thing: what is Lyrie's ethnicity? is she a Mwangi?
As I saw it, and how it happened to play out in my group, both the Orik/Brathuzmus encounter and the Lyrie encounter can be fairly difficult.
With Orik/Brathuzmus, my group managed to take Orik out of the fight straight away with a max rolled Ray of Enfeeblement took his Strength to 8, considering it says he relies on his strength in combat, and his morale isn't that high to begin with, to me that forced him to surrender. Brathuzmus however was a different story, elf bane arrows did some serious damage before he was forced into melee, and his flail is tough with some good rolls (taking big chunks out of the group barbarian)
Lyrie however is no match for any party, she might be able to get lucky with a ray of enfeeblement, and do light damage with her wand, so I took her as soon as she knew something was up, she moved to the chapel (D12) to be with the yeth hounds. Their bay caused two of my group of five to turn and run, so the three on three fight was fairly good. Still not too challenging though
There are three doors betweem them and area D2, and 14 squares of corridors. That calls for a DC 19 Perception check (-10+15+14).
Is it correct?
I'm not sure of this is right, but each square on the map is 5ft, and the -1 is per 10ft of distance. So I'd say it was a DC12 check (-10+15+7)
If he heard the fighting, then he would investigate, but probably not immediately engage the group. I'd have him setup something to try and slow the party while he peppers them with arrows (especially the elves) :)
Sigh. No elves in the party. And what's worse nobody has still detected the characters, so they've been able to take each of the NPCs individually. Lyrie tried to cast defensively a sleep spell, but was brought down by a single attack of opportunity from a two-handed sword when trying to flee upstairs.
Kudos for the PER clarification, a DC 12 check is much better and makes sense that Bruthazmus hears the battle. Anyway, I was considering his Per to be too low. Isn't he supposed to be a guerrilla tactic expert from the forests, with better than normal senses due to his half-animal race? Bugbears are supposed to be silent, deadly and sneaky. Doesn't fit very well with a +1 Perception check.
Moreover, the peppering would be short-lived, as once detected, any character can cover the distance that separates him from the bugbear in one round, so this kind of tactics doesn't work very well. He'll be in melee from round 2.
I was just wondering where exactly you mean to ambush the party, in the corridor that leads to the "longshanks" rooms or inside one of those?
In a corridor leading to their rooms. It is long and just five foot wide so it is perfect place to make them fight Orik one on one. Even if PC's have weapons with reach they have problems [+4 cover to Orik if there are PC's standing front of him].
Lyrie is weak. Two times she has been caught before I had cahnce to do anything that makes encounter difficult. My first group just hit her twice and she was out. Second group tried to grapple her [with succes], she escaped but then sleep spell knocked her out. I might add one level to her to make that encounter more challenging. Also moving her to place with more room might work maybe near to Orik and Bruthazmus so her can come to help them.
And what's worse nobody has still detected the characters, so they've been able to take each of the NPCs individually.
Well done to your group then, none of the named NPCs in Thistletop stand much of a chance on their own.
In a corridor leading to their rooms. It is long and just five foot wide so it is perfect place to make them fight Orik one on one. Even if PC's have weapons with reach they have problems [+4 cover to Orik if there are PC's standing front of him].
Assuming Bruthazmus has a readied attack for the players, and manages to shoot an arrow at the one who opens the door, bracing from the square where the corridors turns west, he won't be able to run after the surprise shot, as readied actions are just partial. I think he can make a five foot step, but if Orik is standing close to him he can't just step in his square. You know, my players are hopeless rule-lawyers and I need to prepare my ground very accurately.
You know, my players are hopeless rule-lawyers and I need to prepare my ground very accurately.
Ouch, that makes things bit difficult.. Do you roll iniatives/etc. rolls in front your players? If not then you could just decide that Bruthazmus won the iniative and after suprise round he moves behind the corner and behind Orik. Not very fair but sometimes GM have to do unfair things.
Bruthazmus is good at melee and if you use converted version [ Check it out] he can take lots of damage. So another way to do things is that bugbear waits in corridor and Orik is hiding somewhere behind PCs. Good places are rooms next to corridor but if PC's check those you have to be creative [like he has potion of invisibilty/etc.]. They try to trap PCs in corridor. Orik attacks PCs who are standing behind melee characters who try to kill Bruthazmus who fights in corridor. Add Lyrie with Orik or Bruthazmus and encounter starts to be really challenging. PCs are between two good warriors in five foot corridor and they are assisted by wizards. Sounds evil. It also makes sense that they fight together.
Hopefully this helps. ^^
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My group avoided almost every encounter in the briar patch (except for Gogmurt, whom they 1-shot killed with a crit from a Dwarven Waraxe, weilded by a goblin hating dwarven ranger), swept the upper works of the fort with little problem, fought the tentamort, then made a beeline for the chapel. They had a lot of trouble with the Yeth hounds, and are low on spells (ok on HP). Now the hounds' baying has alerted the complex, but all that's left are the named NPCs, and they are right in the center of the 1st dungeon level. We ended the session there as it was late, but I've been stewing over what the NPCs will do from here. Only Shelalu failed her save vs fear and fled (so she can reinforce later), and thanks to Detect Magic letting them ID wands/potions/scrolls as they go, they don't have to leave yet, but neither do I want a TPK with Nualia...
So. What now? I was thinking of Orik going to defend Lyrie and Bruthazmus trying to snipe with his bow (since the dungeon has enough circular routes to keep them from cornering him), or they both could go to the archeology room, baricade it and Lyrie run to Nualia, or they could all barricade the room, defend it a few rounds, and all run to Nualia, or ?? If the party runs to rest, I'm not sure how I'll have the NPCs react (especially if the party runs back to Sandpoint).
Good thing I've got a month to figure it out! Suggestions are always welcome, however.
My party approached from the sea-side and they only had to contend with the bunyip.
Reaching the top of the cliff they killed the guards stationed there and cut the rope bridge to avoid reinforcements from the briar patch.
This strategy lead to the PCs getting rather comfy and taking good time in exploring the lower parts of Thistle top. The party had at this point already lost one character to Ripnugget's bodyguards, so I guess they did not want to take any chances.
I foresaw that Orik and Bruthazmus would not ba a real challenge and as things where playing out decided that they would actually make a run for it. Ergo they where long gone before the party could confront them.
Had things worked out differently they probably would have been eliminated by the PCs quite fast. In such an event I would have had them surrender at the first chance (as did Lyrie).
I think using these NPCs to provide the party with information about the plot is FAR more valuable than using them as cannon fother.
Nualia was not realy a challenge for my players.
I think using these NPCs to provide the party with information about the plot is FAR more valuable than using them as cannon fother.
Yes that is also true but I think that they have to be challenging. There is always chance that players coup de grace them when they are disable [like my second group did to Orik who is best source of information IMO] but I would take that chance. If they kill NPCs tehy have to get information about Nualia [and about her background story] some other way. Now I'm thinking that Lyrie who got captured thinks about things and will tell about Nualia if they promise to help her avoid long time in jail.
I'm sad that Orik died because he is one of my fave NPCs in first book. If I recall right he is first NCP who will surrender if he takes too much damage. I like that.
In my campaign, Orik read the writing on the wall around when the PCs had dropped Ripnugget and took off. I had him stop by Sandpoint, basically to tell the PCs that he was taking off and to let them know that Nualia had a plan - up to that point, the PCs hadn't figured out there was a "countdown clock" at work so were being pretty relaxed. Instead of fighting Orik, one of the PCs gave him a horse and some coin and told him to get out of Sandpoint.
Later, he ended up being my way to hook the players into the Fort Rannick plot. Orik had joined up with the Black Arrows and started a regular correspondence with the PC who'd given him the horse. When his last letter refered to seeing the sihedron rune tatoo on a Turtleback Ferry villager and then the letters stopped, the PCs decided to head off to Fort Rannick on their own to investigate.
Now, having helped Orik retake Fort Rannick, I'm expecting him to become the leader of a new corps of Black Arrows.
When players open the door Bruthazmus [or Tsuto if he isn't captured] shoot arrow at the opener and runs behind the corner.
Ouch. I just read the Readying an Action chapter and just understood that you cannot ready an action out of combat.
This is more or less the stuation.Assuming my PCs walk from the west into the big room with a lot of doors and a long corridor in the middle of the south wall. The room is list with an hooded lantern, but they have a bullseye lantern as well, as they're all humans.
They storm into the room and start scattering looking for enemies, when one of them just walks (still out of combat) just north of the long corridor where the bugbear Bruthazmus lurks with an arrow ready to shoot at the first person that comes into sight.
I assumed he could ready the action but as mentioned here, you cannot ready an action out of combat.
I thought that he could hide in the concealment light as the hooded lantern has a reduced radius and Bruthazmus lurks just in the first area of shadow. But then I thought that my players have a bullseye lantern, so they could just tell me that they were directing the bullseye light south, and so Bruthazmus couldn't use his Hide skill.
The rules would suggest me that they simply roll for initiative, but my good sense tells me that a bugbear is standing in the bottom of a corridor with a nocked arrow, ready to shoot. The player that will cross the corridor's "aos" will probably stand in fornt of a dark corridor for a few instants while he's directing the light down the corridor, just enough for the bugbear to shoot. In my opinion this calls for a Perception roll, but I cannot think of what DC could be standing strictly to the rules. What would you use?
The rules would suggest me that they simply roll for initiative, but my good sense tells me that a bugbear is standing in the bottom of a corridor with a nocked arrow, ready to shoot. The player that will cross the corridor's "aos" will probably stand in fornt of a dark corridor for a few instants while he's directing the light down the corridor, just enough for the bugbear to shoot. In my opinion this calls for a Perception roll, but I cannot think of what DC could be standing strictly to the rules. What would you use?
To make cool scenes when palying PF I sometimes just forget the rules as they are. Still it is lot harder when players know who rules are written but then I use my trump card: I'm GM and I rule the game. Hmm this isn't helping your case even a tiny bit.
Bruthazmus knows [hear/smell/anything] that PCs are coming to corridor and he is aware of opponents in suprise round so he can shoot at PCs who opened the door. Eventhough it is kinda fishy to say that he knew they were there if they tried to move unnoticed. Bruthazmus is ranger damn it he can notice them. :P Combat starts at suprise round so Orik can ready action "to charge after Bruthazmus moves away and someone is coming after him". This kind of tactic need high iniative rolls but it is still possible by the rules [hopefully].
My players aren't rulelawyers so it makes my job a lot easier that I can pull some kind of cool tricks if PCs aren't aware of their enemies. I wish good luck to you Gwenders. ^^