Pathfinder Feat Point System Project


Homebrew and House Rules


Alrighty, so Sean K. one of the awesome game designers who makes us all happy.

Created a Feat Point system in the days back for 3.0 - 3.5

Here's the dealy. Lets create a feat point project for Pathfinder.
I'm gonna need help for this one, but anyway, here is Sean's quoted work.

Quote:

Feat Points

Each time a character gains a feat, she instead gets 10 feat points which she can use to purchase feats. Characters must still meet all prerequisites as normal. Unspent feat points carry over from level to level, but a character can only purchase feats with feat points at the times in her adventuring career when she could normally select a feat, even if she has extra feat points left over (for example, a character with 6 feat points left over from character level 3 could not spend them until level 6--the next level at which she gains a feat) .

A class that grants bonus feats grants bonus feat points of the appropriate type. For example, the fighter class gives 10 fighter feat points at levels 1, 2, 4, 6, and so on. Typed feat points can only be used on feats of the appropriate type, so a fighter can only use his fighter feat points to purchase fighter feats. However, any normal (typeless) feat points can be combined with typed feat points to purchase typed feats. You can still only use these feat points to purchase feats of the type you could normally purchase at that level.
Example:Tegdar is a human ftr1 with 3 typeless feat points left over from 1st level. He reaches 2nd level and gains 10 fighter feat points. Tegdar decides to use 7 of those points to purchase Combat Reflexes (cost: 7 points) , leaving him with 3 fighter feat points and 3 normal feat points. He decides to combine these feat points and purchase Far Shot (cost: 6points) . He now is completely out of feat points. He could not have used his 3 normal feat points to purchase feats other than fighter feats because he can only select those feats at level 1, 3, 6, and so on.

Feat Point Debt
At 1st level, and 1st level only, a character is allowed to overspend her feat points by selecting one or more feats with a cost of 11 or more feat points. The extra cost of these feats is carried over until the next time she gains feat points of the appropriate type. She can go into "feat point debt" up to 3 points. Feat point debt is tracked separately by type of feat point (typeless, fighter, wizard, etc.) .The feat point debt system allows characters using it to maintain parity with characters who don't (characters using the standard rules could sometimes end up with several strong feats at 1st level, penalizing the feat-point character) .

Example: Vidda, a halflingrog1, has 10 feat points. She selects Two-Weapon Fighting (11 points) and goes into feat point debt by for point. The next time she gains typeless feat points (3rd level) she only gains 9instead of 10 because of the 1-point debt. She gains the normal 10 feat points at levels 6, 9, and so on.
Example:Tegdar, a human ftr1, has 20 typeless feat points (10 from being1st-level, 10 from being human) and 10 fighter feat points. He chooses Point Blank Shot (9 points) and Two-Weapon Fighting with his typless feat points, which brings his typeless feat points to 0 (if there were a 12-point feat he qualified for, he could have selected that instead of Two-Weapon fighting, which would have put him in debt for 1feat point) . He purchases Rapid Shot (11 points) with his fighter feat points, which puts him in debt for one fighter feat point. At 2ndlevel, he gains 9 fighter feat points instead of 10 because of the1-point debt. He gains the normal 10 fighter feat points at fighter level 4, 6, and so on. His typeless feat points (at level 3, 6, and soon) are unaffected (though if he had chosen a 12-point feat instead of Two-Weapon Fighting he would have paid that typeless feat point debt at level 3 when he gained more feat points) .

Virtual Feats
Virtual feats, such as those conditional feats granted by the monk and ranger classes, do not grant feat points, cost feat points, or cause or negate feat point debt.

Pricing Feats
When pricing feats, keep in mind these guidelines (in no particular order) . "Better" in these circumstances means "will have a higher feat point cost." Note that many feats choose a weaker option; this does not make the feat flawed, as it is usually done for balance or playability.

1. Something that gives you an extra attack better than an equivalent feat that doesn't.Two-Weapon Fighting is better than Weapon Focus because TWF gives you one more opportunity to use Weapon Focus (and Power Attack, and Weapon Specialization, and Cleave, and Improved Critical, and Improved Disarm...) .
2. Typeless bonuses are better than typed bonuses. Purely a matter of stacking or not.
3. Offense is better than defense.A +1 to attack is better than +1 to AC because you control who you attack and where best to devote your combat assets, while your enemies choose to attack you or not and decide where to devote their combat assets; a +1 to AC does you no good if none of your enemies are attacking you.
4. Giving a bonus is better than reducing a penalty.Penalties are caused by circumstances that can usually be avoided in some way without spending a feat (the firing into melee penalty can be avoided by shooting non-meleeing targets or larger creatures, ranged penalties can be avoided by moving closer, movement AOOs can be avoided by using Tumble or staying out of threatened areas, etc.) while there are few circumstances where you can gain a bonus. In combat, not having a penalty means (at best) that you're able to fight at your normal effectiveness, whereas having a bonus means you are fighting better than normal.
5. Not having a use limitation is better than having a use limitation.Being able to stun an attacker an unlimited number of times is better than Stunning Fist's daily limit to your number of stunning attacks. A feat that gave a +4 dodge bonus to AC against all AOOs would be better than Mobility's limited set of qualifying AOOs that trigger the bonus.
6. Not having to declare to use the feat is better than having to declare.Automatically improving your critical threat range with Improved Critical is better than a theoretical feat which requires you to declare using it to improve your critical threat range.
7. Not having a power cap is better than having one.A feat is more versatile (and therefore more powerful) if you can push it to extremes. Power Attack is better than Combat Expertise because the former doesn't have the +5/-5 limitation of the latter (both have a cap equal to the character's BAB, of course) . Scribe Scroll is better than Brew Potion because Scribe Scroll doesn't have a 3rd-level spell limit.
8. Not having a cost is better than having a cost.A feat that made all your spells castable silently is better than an identical feat that requires you to use a higher-level spell slot.
9. A bonus to a broad category is worth more than the same bonus to a smaller category. +1 to all spell DCs is better than +1 to DCs from just one school.
10. Specialization is rewarded. +3 to one skill is better than +2 to two skills or +1 to three skills, even though the total plus value is the same or greater.
Not quite a big rule: #11. Some feats are worth more to some classes than others. In particular, metamagic feats are better for spontaneous casters than preparing casters; that's because a metamagic feat for a spontaneous caster is like adding an entire new complement of spells, which is great since they have few spells but many spell slots. Eventually we'd need to work out some sort of cost modifiers for such things, but for now be aware that metamagic feats should cost more (probably just +1 or +2) for spontaneous casters.

[You'll notice that with the exception of Spell Mastery, there are no feats valued at less than 5points. That's because I didn't want a character to pick up weak but useful-as-prereqs feats just by dropping 1 or 2 spare feat points. Feat choices for a character should still require some serious thinking, and a significant cost means players are less likely to gloss over the cost. Also, by having all feats cost 5 or more points, it makes sure that characters won't end up with more than 2x the number of feats as a "normal, " non-feat-point character (even though they'd all be weak feats) .]
br >These point costs are estimates and I'm willing to discuss them on my message boards if you think any are too high or too low. Benchmark feats are listed in bold.]
[The Relevant Rule column is a quick pointer to the rule explaining why I downgraded the cost of a feat; in other words, these are the reasons why the cost was reduced, rather than justifying a boost in the cost. Of course, I could have missed some. :P]

Acrobatic 9
Agile 9
Alertness 9
Animal Affinity 9
Armor Prof (H) 9
Armor Prof (L) 5
Armor Prof (M) 7
Athletic 9
Augment Summoning 7
Blind-Fight 8
Brew Potion 9
Cleave 8
Combat Casting 10
Combat Expertise 9
Combat Reflexes 7
Craft Magic Arms/Armor 10
Craft Rod 7
Craft Staff 9
Craft Wand 10
Craft Wondrous Item 10
Deceitful 9
Deflect Arrows 7
Deft Hands 9
Diehard 7
Diligent 9
Dodge 7
Empower Spell 5
Endurance 5
Enlarge Spell 5
Eschew Materials 4
Exotic Wep Prof 9
Extend Spell 5
Extra Turning 10
Far Shot 6
Forge Ring 7
Great Cleave 6
Great Fortitude 10
Greater Spell Focus 7
Greater Spell Penetrate 8
Greater TWF 10
Greater Wep Focus 10
Greater Wep Specialize 10
Heighten Spell 5
Improved Bull Rush 8
Improved Counterspell 7
Improved Critical 10
Improved Disarm 8
Improved Feint 7
Improved Grapple 8
Improved Initiative 8
Imp. Overrun 8
Imp. Precise Shot 8
Imp. Shield Bash 8
Imp. Trip 8
Imp. Turning 8
Imp. TWF 10
Imp. Unarmed Strike 7
Investigator 9
Iron Will 10
Leadership 8
Lightning Reflexes 10
Magical Aptitude 9
Manyshot 12
Martial Wep Prof 6
Maximize Spell 5
Mobility 8
Mounted Archery 6
Mounted Combat 5
Natural Spell 5
Negotiator 9
Nimble Fingers 9
Persuasive 9
Point Blank Shot 9
Power Attack 10
Precise Shot 10
Quick Draw 7
Quicken Spell 5
Rapid Reload 7
Rapid Shot 11
Ride-By Attack 8
Run 5
Scribe Scroll 10
Self-Sufficient 9
Shield Prof 5
Shot On The Run 8
Silent Spell 5
Simple Wep Prof 7
Skill Focus 10
Snatch Arrows 6
Spell Focus 7
Spell Mastery 4
Spell Penetration 8
Spirited Charge 8
Spring Attack 9
Stealthy 9
Still Spell 5
Stunning Fist 8
Toughness (3 HP) 6
Toughness (5 HP) 10
Tower Shield Prof 5
Track 7
Trample 6
Two-Wep Defense 7
Two-Wep Fighting 11
Weapon Finesse 9
Weapon Focus 10
Wep Specialize 10
Whirlwind 9
Widen Spell 5

Here is the weblink to the original source.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/featpointsystem.html

So how are we gonna do this?

The Pathfinder Feats
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html


I like this but I think its totally screwed up in that the spell feats all seem to cost less than the combat feats and the spell feats are infinately more useful to casters... why do all the spell feats cost 5?

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