Ok, this helps me zero in on what people want. I can absolutely ASSURE you that the first draft of a global map will have HUGE "blank" (or to use the trade term, "untagged") areas, but my preference would be to include the actual outlines of all of the continents.
Well, except for Sarusan, which has a strange feature in that even those who have traveled there cannot accurately remember more than the bare rudiments of their journey.
So, for example, while a "global" map of Golarion might have a huge superconinent labeled "CASMARON" that might include the named places we've mentioned so far (Lake Castrovin, Ninshabur, Iobaria, etc.), there would be a TON of area with no marks on it at all, because it will literally take us years to get around to detailing the whole place.
Is this what you guys are looking for?
I like it very much.
Oh, and I think we should talk a bit about Sarusan ...
Yes. And could we have it yesterday?
You'll have to wait until the day after its publication.
Next question is, when an official world map is released will we get any kind of official word saying which undeveloped areas on the map will stay that way and which will eventually get published content?
That would mean that they had to commit themselves to never detailing some areas, which I think is bad. It limits their possibilities. What if they have a great idea for an AP about some poor kingdom caught between the sides in a war between its neighbouring nations Wossnamia and Thingamaboba, but they said they'd never detail the lands around it?
I have seen others complain about how Forgotten Realms started with lots of undefined areas but were then filled in with published materials and when these areas got defined by TSR/WotC that their FR campaigns were thrown into chaos as the empty area they were using suddenly had official content.
Well, if you're going to adapt a published setting to your own tastes, you'll have to deal with stuff like that.
When faced with similar problems, I always thought it good to remember that until the time if and when Paizo takes over the world, they have no way to make sure I use the world the way they intended instead of changing it to suit my tastes.
I can just go and relocate nations they fill in after, or ignore info that is added later. And so can you!
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Erik Thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess everyone would love to put their two cents in about what they would like to see.
I would love to see a global map; I would also love to see where the other civilizations such as Quadira, Vuldra and Tian Xia are in relation to the inner sea region.
Giving us the outlines of continents with large blank areas “unexplored “ or Untagged sounds like fun too. Perhaps you could put in the mountain ranges and rivers. Hmm that’s filling in blank spaces
Hmmm, Maybe another possibility is to do something other then the traditional full color map you have been producing which are no doubt beautiful and expensive. How about an old style parchment map with pencil outlines? And all sorts of navigational compass roses on it and monsters painted on it? You could have lots of blank spaces, with the outlines of the coasts drawn, and a mountain range here and there with blank spaces around it, river mouths etc. you could put in harpies and gorgons and medusas and Krackens and all sorts of hints about where ruins and headhunters are. And then in a couple of years publish an “official map”
For the final maps, I would love to see them tectonically and geologically accurate. As much as I loved Tolkien, he did have random mountain ranges all over the place. Come to think of it the Forgotten realms did as well. I like my rivers running down hill, form mountain rages to lakes across continents to the sea.
You know this could be fodder for an adventure path. How about something about a Pathfinder expedition to Tian Xia through Qadira and Vuldra? How about the first three issues could be getting there blazing a trail, and the last three issues working on establishing a trade route? I wonder if you can tie the parts to an elf- gate to the back of a camel? Or several camels?
Perhaps you could put out the pencil map at the beginning of the AP and as people uncovered more of the world you could put out a much more detailed map at the end of the AP.
Well perhaps there wont be enough for an AP, but how about three modules? Maybe three modules
Marco Polo anyone?
Oh one final thought. Since I know everyone will want to put their own stuff in and might worry about having some publish materiel come along and fill in the area that they have lovingly crafted, why not set aside a “DM reserve”, give us a portion of a map, an Island, a small continent, and say, here is the outlines of your sandbox. We are going to leave it alone; have fun, do whatever you want with it but the rest we might fill in
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Next question is, when an official world map is released will we get any kind of official word saying which undeveloped areas on the map will stay that way and which will eventually get published content?That would mean that they had to commit themselves to never detailing some areas, which I think is bad. It limits their possibilities. What if they have a great idea for an AP about some poor kingdom caught between the sides in a war between its neighbouring nations Wossnamia and Thingamaboba, but they said they'd never detail the lands around it?
There's no reason that they can't leave a portion of a continent for fan use and not fill it in. Wars don't make for the typical AP either. ;) Frankly, I think the world is large enough that it will be years and years and years before it fills up. At that point, if they're smart, they'll probably do a new system and new world.
Yes please. Untagged, with at least major geographic features (names not necessary - yet).Ok, this helps me zero in on what people want. I can absolutely ASSURE you that the first draft of a global map will have HUGE "blank" (or to use the trade term, "untagged") areas, but my preference would be to include the actual outlines of all of the continents.
Well, except for Sarusan, which has a strange feature in that even those who have traveled there cannot accurately remember more than the bare rudiments of their journey.
So, for example, while a "global" map of Golarion might have a huge superconinent labeled "CASMARON" that might include the named places we've mentioned so far (Lake Castrovin, Ninshabur, Iobaria, etc.), there would be a TON of area with no marks on it at all, because it will literally take us years to get around to detailing the whole place.
Is this what you guys are looking for?
+1. This, please.
The farthest reaches of Casmaron (east of Avistan) contain a sprawling Tian colony nation called Kaladay that trades with Vudra. From thence come much of the Tian artifacts sold in markets like Katapesh and Absalom, and the trading vessels of Tian Xia proper are more common in places like Kelesh and Vudra, hence the association of all things Tian as being of "eastern" origin.
Ah, an entirely sensible association. Thanks :)
Yes please. Untagged, with at least major geographic features (names not necessary - yet).Ok, this helps me zero in on what people want. I can absolutely ASSURE you that the first draft of a global map will have HUGE "blank" (or to use the trade term, "untagged") areas, but my preference would be to include the actual outlines of all of the continents.
Well, except for Sarusan, which has a strange feature in that even those who have traveled there cannot accurately remember more than the bare rudiments of their journey.
So, for example, while a "global" map of Golarion might have a huge superconinent labeled "CASMARON" that might include the named places we've mentioned so far (Lake Castrovin, Ninshabur, Iobaria, etc.), there would be a TON of area with no marks on it at all, because it will literally take us years to get around to detailing the whole place.
Is this what you guys are looking for?
+1. This, please.
I agree, yes please :) And if at all possible, when you do get to printing this glorious large map, could it be on something sturdier than paper? Perhaps the thin "plastic" like they use for Twister mats :) That should survive years of drooling over and be cleanable, to boot!
I would prefer that most continents have a couple low tagged zones. By low tagged I mean a trade route, feeder (loosely defined quest hub), and the surrounding regions high level geography. A boxed out zone that is just a void can create continuity issues
I would also like to see the entire world defined, so that it is easier to color inside the lines. No mystery continent sized void(s) that may have the possibility of being revised by the whim of some crazed product developer.
There's no reason that they can't leave a portion of a continent for fan use and not fill it in.
Yes, there is. Actually, I already mentioned it.
Frankly, I think the world is large enough that it will be years and years and years before it fills up.
It's not about filling up or not. It's about making the best adventure path you can do without having to stay away from certain spots.
At that point, if they're incredibly stupid, they'll probably do a new system and new world.
I fixed that for you.
At that point, if they're incredibly stupid, they'll probably do a new system and new world.I fixed that for you.
Please don't.
Please don't.
At that point, if they're incredibly stupid, they'll probably do a new system and new world.I fixed that for you.
Face it: Paizo won't just throw away this system - not throwing it away is their big thing, the reason they're doing the whole Pathfinder line, and the reason most fans love them. Pathfinder RPG 2e will be around in another decade or so (that's what Paizo has given as the likely date of their new edition here on the boards). And that's not a new system, it's a new edition of this one.
And Paizo won't throw away the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign world, either. They're in for the long haul.
And Paizo won't throw away the Pathfinder Chronicles campaign world, either. They're in for the long haul.
I did not say that. They can certainly continue to establish themselves over the next decade. However, there is a point at which a game needs to be reinvented and/or refreshed. It makes sense to do a new (aka additional) setting at that time. Otherwise it leads to Canon Wars when the next generation of designers tinkers with things that fans dislike.
I did not say that. They can certainly continue to establish themselves over the next decade. However, there is a point at which a game needs to be reinvented and/or refreshed.
Sure. New editions make sense. But they won't ditch the game. It's an evolution of the oldest RPG there is, and it still has a lot of fans.
In 10 years or so, they will do a new edition. It will probably be a bigger change than the one from 3.5 to Pathfinder RPG (1st edition), and change stuff that make the rules no longer compatible to each other, but it will be the same game.
It makes sense to do a new (aka additional) setting at that time. Otherwise it leads to Canon Wars when the next generation of designers tinkers with things that fans dislike.
Not the way Paizo runs things. Paizo makes rules that serve the game world, not the other way around. The setting will stay the same, the people and places and everything else in it will stay the same. Only the rules used to interpret them will change.
For example: Let's say the cleric class undergoes a significant change, with domains going away and being replaced by, say, Spheres, with the list of spheres being a different one than the list of domains because they work differently, and each sphere having great influence over the list of spells and powers the character has.
All that doesn't mean that the Golarion deities are useless now because their domain lists make no sense any more. It just means that, say, Iomedae loses her domain list (Glory, Good, Law, Sun, War) and gains a list of spheres (Justice, Battle and Valour), and so do the other gods (e.g. Irori loses Healing, Knowledge, Law, Rune, Strength and gains Life, Lore, Body and Mind)
Or let's say the monk class goes away and is replaced by a brawler class (which focuses on unarmed combat and martial arts stuff without the enlightenment parts) or even one big fighting discipline for warrior classes. Doesn't mean you have to ditch the campaign setting or invent stuff like the Monkplague that kills off all monks - characters that used to be monks will just be brawlers, or maybe brawler/clerics of an appropriate god (which provides the right sphere to gain enlightenment and phyiscal and mental perfection, like Irori).
As for extra campaign worlds: Paizo is not a huge company that can support several campaign worlds at once, and they say they don't really become that big, either. They will always have just the one world which they can then fully support.