Summoners: Eilodon & Summon Monster?

[coff]

Does having a Eilodon interfere with the Summon Monster ability in regards to the limits on Animal Companions? I don't think so because the Summon isn't technically a Companion but I didn't get a chance to Summon in the most recent adventure and wanted to double check before I potentially break rules.

[Doug Doug]

coff wrote:

Does having a Eilodon interfere with the Summon Monster ability in regards to the limits on Animal Companions? I don't think so because the Summon isn't technically a Companion but I didn't get a chance to Summon in the most recent adventure and wanted to double check before I potentially break rules.

No more than when a druid summons. You're free to summon away, it's what the class is all about after all.

[Joshua J. Frost]

For the purposes of OP, the eidolon is an animal companion.

[Doug Miles]

Josh later clarified that Boon Companion does NOT apply to eidolons.

[teribithia9]

Since the APG is out, the answer to the initial question is kind of different, too. If you're using the summoner's spell like summoning ability, the eidolon disappears when your summoned creature appears. Since they both come from the same source, you can only have one there at a time.

If actually casting the full round spell summon monster, the eidolon can stick around. (Or you can summon a monster with your spell like ability and then cast the full round spell summon eidolon to have both of them in place at once.)

[cfalcon]

Quote:

If you're using the summoner's spell like summoning ability, the eidolon disappears when your summoned creature appears.

No. If your Eidolon is active, you flat out can't use the summon monster spell like ability. You would first have to actually dismiss your Eidolon, you don't get that action for free.

Quote:

Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned.

There does not appear to be a rule preventing you from summoning a monster and then immediately summoning your Eidolon via the ritual, even though that is likely not the intent.

There is also not a rule preventing you from using your Summon Eidolon spell while having a summoned monster via the SLA active, and it's likely intended that there not be.

However, if you have your Eidolon summoned via Summon Eidolon, by the rules you cannot use your Summon Monster SLA. This may or may not be intended.

The "uses the same power source" text isn't really backed up by anything but "can't use this power if your Eidolon is out".

[Dave the Barbarian]

The APG cleared up all of these questions for me. I usually stick to one or the other. Two summoned creatures would bog the game down.

[bdk86]

cfalcon wrote:

However, if you have your Eidolon summoned via Summon Eidolon, by the rules you cannot use your Summon Monster SLA. This may or may not be intended.

The "uses the same power source" text isn't really backed up by anything but "can't use this power if your Eidolon is out".

Based on my experience with the play test, I would venture to guess this is intentional. Having both Summon Monster SLA & Eidolon active both bogs down combat and out right destroys the power curve. A summoner could be controlling up to four monsters, almost doubling the party size.

I'm assuming Rules-As-Intended for Summon Eidolon was to have an option for summoning of the Eidolon in combat in a pinch (Full round is much better than one minute). Not to allow for a loophole in only allowing Eidolon or Summon Monster SLA, not both, to be active at a given point.

[cfalcon]

My point is you CAN have Eidolon and Summon Monster out. The simplest way is to use your Summon Monster SLA, followed by Summon Eidolon. A second way is to use Summon Monster SLA, then flat out SUMMON your Eidolon while your summoned wolf dances around or whatever, then go engage. Which is right for you depends on your time available for prep.

However, if you have summoned your Eidolon via Summon Monster, you can't SLA out a wolf or whatever. It's odd that you can get it with ONE combination of spell and SLA, but not the opposite combination.