I mentioned on another thread that the Duskblade was one of my favorite classes outside of the base core classes. Another one is the Warmage. I’ve always thought that the Duskblade should have Charisma as his main ability score instead of Intelligence. I also wanted him to have the versatility of the Warmage where he had an entire list of spells to choose from spontaneously, but not have to go through the trouble each level increase of which spell he learned. What may be controversial to some is that I decided to compile his list of spells by using only what is available in Pathfinder Core; doing away with the 3.5 PH and PH2.
I’m on the fence about the hit dice, but I did boost it up. I reduced the BAB (so as to be on the same playing field with a maxed level Eldritch Knight) and made a spell progression similar to the Bard, which now includes 6th level (instead of the traditional 5 levels). When a new spell level is obtained, you will notice that he will have access to 2 spell slots. One of those slots will be to take advantage of the Eclectic Learning ability that Warmages had which allowed you to choose a spell from the entire Sor/Wiz list that wasn’t available on the Duskblade spell list.
Some will note that I removed Heavy Armor Proficiency and did not offer Armored Mage functionality for Heavy Armor or a Heavy Shield. Having access to select spells and powers (I think) offset the need for those perks.
Two important features that I felt that needed to be present in this revision were seeing in darkness and enhanced movement abilities. Like some others, I modified the Monk’s ‘ki’ pool ability to suit my needs. Currently, I am calling it ‘mana’ until I can come up with something better. Umbral Sight abilities (for the life of me, I tried to come up with another description, but tenebrous and aphotic just didn’t get it across as well, so I yoinked it) and dimension/teleport actions are fueled by mana. Unlike the other existing builds, I made two distinctions: additional mana is required to spend if the duskblade is teleporting additional willing individuals with him –and- a mana point has to be spent to use the quick cast function. I feel that this helps from having the build become too over powering; requiring one to manage their resources accordingly. The only movement ability I have not provided was Gate; I’m on the fence whether to offer it.
I want to expand on the Arcane Channeling options, but undecided as to what to do yet. Perhaps some sort of critical option. I didn’t see the need to include a dispelling hit due to available spells on his spell list. And I don’t have a proper capstone for this build (yet). I’ve mulled some of the ideas put out on the other related threads, but wasn’t quite sure whether it would fit this particular build because of the abilities and spells he currently possesses.
Regarding the current spell list – it is a work in progress. I am still in the process of culling out some of the spells I currently have listed to a set that would be best suited for this build and mirrors the amount that the warmage has so that this duskblade build mirrors its allotment. Unlike the 3.5 duskblade, I decided to cap the number of spell slots to 6 for each level (not counting any bonus spells due to Charisma). Realizing that there may not be a significant number of touch spells available from the Pathfinder core spells compared to the 3.5 build, you will notice that I did focus a bit more on offering telekinesis / domination type spells for him. (I can hear the ZOMG U made a SithGish just about now…). You will also notice that I toyed with some of the spell levels. I made sure to cross reference against the Sorcerer and the Wizard to compare which levels they gained access to certain spells.
Admitting this is incomplete, I’m throwing it up here for some ideas and constructive criticisms. Again, keep in mind that my main purpose was to use Pathfinder only spells and not have the need to reference 3.5 materials (as they slowly go towards unavailability).
If you’re reading this and recognize some of your handiwork, proper credits are given at the end. :)
*****
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
BAB: +3/4
Saves: Good Fortitude, Poor Reflex, Good Will Power
Class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A duskblade is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Spells: A duskblade casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards) primarily from the duskblade spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. When a duskblade gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the duskblade’s spell list. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list. Duskblades also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their esoteric learning ability as they increase in level. To cast a spell, a duskblade must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a duskblade’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the duskblade’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a duskblade can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given below. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, p.17). Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a duskblade need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Armored Mage (light), Arcane Attunement, Cantrips, Mana Pool
2. Combat Casting, Dimensional Pocket
3. Arcane Channeling, Dimension Hop
4. Esoteric Learning, Umbral Sight (darkvision)
5. Bonus Feat, Quick Cast 1/day
6. Spell Power +1, Blink
7. Armored Mage (medium), Esoteric Learning
8. Quick Cast 2/day
9. Spell Power +2, Dimension Door
10. Esoteric Learning, Umbral Sight (blindsense)
11. Bonus Feat, Quick Cast 3/day
12. Spell Power +3, Teleport
13. Arcane Channeling (full attack), Esoteric Learning
14. Quick Cast 4/day
15. Spell Power +4, Greater Teleport
16. Esoteric Learning, Umbral Sight (blindsight)
17. Bonus Feat, Quick Cast 5/day
18. Spell Power +5
19. <???>
20. <capstone?>, Quick Cast 6/day
Armored Mage (Ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A duskblade’s limited focus and specialized training, however, allows you to avoid arcane spell failure so long as you stick to light armor and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armors, or to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class. At 7th level, you learn to use medium armor with no chance of arcane spell failure.
Arcane Attunement (Su): A duskblade combines spellcasting and bladework so completely that while wielding a melee weapon, he casts spells as if he possessed the eschew materials and somatic weaponry feats. [Somatic Weaponry: (from Complete Mage, pg 47) When wielding a weapon (or holding an item of comparable size) in one or both hands, you can use that item to trace the somatic component of a spell, rather than using your fingers. This allows you to cast spells with somatic components even while your hands are full or occupied, as long as at least one hand is holding an item of proper size. This does not allow you to use somatic components while grappling, regardless of the size of your foe.]
Cantrips: You learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Mana Pool (Su): You gain a pool of mana points, supernatural energy that can be used to accomplish certain feats. The number of points in a mana pool is equal to ½ your duskblade level + your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). You can spend points from your mana pool to activate your various powers. You can spend a mana point as a swift action to gain a +10 bonus to Acrobatic skill checks to jump for 1 round, gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round, to increase your speed by +10 feet per mana point spent for 1 round, or to feather fall (as the spell) for 60 feet per mana point spent per round.
A duskblade gains additional powers that consume points from his mana pool as he gains levels. The mana pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
New Feat: Extra Mana
You can use your mana pool more times per day than most.
Prerequisite: Mana pool class feature.
Benefit: Your mana pool increases by 2.
Special: You can gain Extra Mana multiple times. Its effects stack.
Combat Casting: At 2nd level, you gain Combat Casting as a bonus feat.
Dimensional Pocket (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, as long as you have at least 1 point in your mana pool, you can access an extradimensional storage space. This space can hold up to 10 pounds worth of gear per class level. Removing or stowing an object from the Dimensional Pocket is a free action.
Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved. At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.
Dimension Hop (Su): At 3rd level, by spending 1 point from your mana pool, you can teleport up to 10 feet per point of your Charisma bonus (minimum of 10 feet) as a swift action.
Esoteric Learning (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, and at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th level, you can choose to add a new spell to your list that would normally be outside your area of expertise. The spell must be a sorcerer / wizard spell, but it can be from any school. The spell is treated as being one level higher than normal. You must be capable of casting spells of the new spell’s adjusted level – for instance, you can’t choose a 3rd-level sorcerer/wizard spell at 6th level, because the spell is treated as a 4th-level spell for you.
Umbral Sight (Su): Beginning at 4th level, you gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet (or an additional 30 feet if you already have darkvision). At 10th level, you gain blindsense with a range of 30 feet. At 16th level, you gain blindsight with a range of 60 feet.
Bonus Feat: At 5th level, and at every 6 levels, you gain a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”
Quick Cast (Su): Beginning at 5th level, by spending 1 point from your mana pool, you can cast one spell each day as a swift action so long as the casting time of the spell is 1 standard action or less. You can use this ability twice per day at 8th level, three times per day at 11th level, 4 times per day at 14th level, five times per day at 17th level, and six times per day at 20th level.
Spell Power (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, you can more easily overcome the spell resistance of any opponent you successfully injure with a melee attack. If you have injured an opponent with a melee attack, you gain a +1 bonus on your caster level check to overcome spell resistance for the remainder of the encounter. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 15th level, and +5 at 18th level.
Blink (Su): At 6th level, you gain the benefit of the blink spell as a swift action for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum 1) by spending 1 point from your mana pool.
Dimension Door (Su): At 9th level, by spending 1 mana point as a swift action, you can use a dimension door effect with a caster level equal to your duskblade level.
Teleport (Su): At 12th level, you can use teleport as the spell description with a caster level equal to your duskblade level as a swift action by spending 1 mana point. You may spend an additional mana point per willing medium or smaller creature or its equivalent per three caster levels.
Greater Teleport (Su): At 15th level, you can use greater teleport as the spell description with a caster level equal to your duskblade level as a swift action by spending 2 mana points. You may spend 2 additional mana points per willing medium or smaller creature or its equivalent per three caster levels.
*****
Duskblade Spell Progression
1st level: 2
2nd level: 3
3rd level: 4
4th level: 4, 2
5th level: 5, 3
6th level: 5, 4
7th level: 6, 4, 2
8th level: 5, 5, 3
9th level: 6, 5, 4
10th level: 6, 6, 4, 2
11th level: 6, 6, 5, 3
12th level: 6, 6, 5, 4
13th level: 6, 6, 6, 4, 2
14th level: 6, 6, 6, 5, 3
15th level: 6, 6, 6, 5, 4
16th level: 6, 6, 6, 6, 4, 2
17th level: 6, 6, 6, 6, 5, 3
18th level: 6, 6, 6, 6, 5, 4
19th level: 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 5
20th level: 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6
Duskblade Spell List
0. Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Flare, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Touch of Fatigue. (Currently 10 spells; s/b offering between 4 to 9?)
1. Burning Hands, Cause Fear, Charm Person, Chill Touch, Color Spray, Disguise Self, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Magic Missile, Magic Weapon, Obscuring Mist, Protection From Chaos/Evil/Good Law, Ray of Enfeeblement, Resist Energy (Sor/Wiz 2), Shocking Grasp, True Strike. (Currently 16 spells; s/b offering between 13 to 18?)
2. Acid Arrow, Alter Self, Bear’s Endurance, Blur, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Continual Flame, Darkness, Eagle’s Splendor, Fox’s Cunning, False Life, Ghoul Touch, Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Knock, Levitate, Mirror Image, Owl’s Wisdom, Protection from Arrows, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility, Spectral Hand, Spider Climb, Touch of Idiocy. (Currently 24 spells; s/b offering between 11 to 19?)
3. Arcane Sight, Deeper Darkness (Cler 3), Dispel Magic (Sor/Wiz 4), Displacement, Fly, Gaseous Form, Hold Person, Invisibility Purge (Cler 3), Invisibility Sphere, Keen Edge, Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Magic Weapon (Greater), Protection from Energy, Ray of Exhaustion, Suggestion, Vampiric Touch, Wind Wall. (Currently 17 spells; s/b offering between 10 to 13?)
4. Charm Monster, Contagion, Dimensional Anchor, Enervation, Fire Shield, Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser), Invisibility (Greater), Phantasmal Killer, Resilient Sphere, Shout, Stoneskin, Telekinesis (Sor/Wiz 5), Wall of Force (Sor/Wiz 5). (Currently 13 spells; s/b offering between 7 to 10?)
5. Chain Lightning (Sor/Wiz 6), Disintegrate (Sor/Wiz 6), Dispel Magic (Greater) (Sor/Wiz 6), Dominate Person, Eyebite (Sor/Wiz 6), Feeblemind, Hold Monster, Mislead (Sor/Wiz 6), Overland Flight, Passwall, Polar Ray (Sor/Wiz 8), Transformation (Sor/Wiz 6), Waves of Fatigue. (Currently 13 spells; s/b offering between 7 to 10?)
6. Arcane Sight (Greater) (Sor/Wiz 7), Antimagic Field, Contingency, Ethereal Jaunt (Sor/Wiz 7), Globe of Invulnerability, Instant Summons (Sor/Wiz 7), Moment of Prescience (Sor/Wiz 8), Repulsion, Reverse Gravity (Sor/Wiz 7), Spell Turning (Sor/Wiz 7), True Seeing. (Currently 10 spells; s/b offering between 6 to 9?)
Shalandar: 6th level spell progression.
Anthony Kane: Duskblade conversion.
Quixque: BAB progression and Arcane Attunement.
David Fryer: War Mage’s Eclectic Learning alternative class feature.
SmiloDan: His Gloomblade and Quickjack builds.
Well, it's certainly different. I'm not sure what to say, to be honest with you.
Personally, I don't like the whole "mana pool" abilities. It's like adding spells that aren't really spells, yet they kind of are, but only usable through this special way that makes me have more paperwork than I had before....ouch, brain hurts.
Some of the spells you have seem very confusing to me. It's like you said "Ok, what are the spells I just want this guy to have, let's throw them together into the class."
I mean, charm spells? Why would someone who is a mage who casts their spells through a weapon, cast charm spells? Disguise self? Magic Missile??
Believe me when I say I'm all for opening up his spell list, but you basically just took the best spells you could find and said "ok, he gets them all and can use them when you want, IN ARMOR."
My impressions of the duskblade have always been "I'm a fighter, and a bit of a mage, but I specialize in casting my touch spells through my weapon, dealing spell and weapon damage." You opened his spell selection up too greatly in my opinion.
Well, it's certainly different. I'm not sure what to say, to be honest with you.
...comments...
Believe me when I say I'm all for opening up his spell list, but you basically just took the best spells you could find and said "ok, he gets them all and can use them when you want, IN ARMOR."
My impressions of the duskblade have always been "I'm a fighter, and a bit of a mage, but I specialize in casting my touch spells through my weapon, dealing spell and weapon damage." You opened his spell selection up too greatly in my opinion.
There really won't be a lot of mana points to keep track of given the ceiling you can have for each level based on 1/2 your class level and your charisma modifier. That's the trade off for not having to keep track of spells you want to use each day. For me, I find that more time consuming to get a list together and hand it over to the DM versus knowing what mana I have available each day.
I had a hard time finding a bunch of 'touch' spells to cast through one's weapon. Perhaps I should look at other melee touch spells that are not on the Sor/Wiz list? Again, I'm trying to keep it contained to Pathfinder core. As for the charm (which I'm lumping in with telekinesis / telepathy) spells, I find it as a means to control your opponents in combat to your advantage. The telekinesis spells came about as I dumped all of the Bigby's fist spells.
I'm on the fence about Disguise Self / Alter Self and more than likely plan to drop them anyway. Magic Missile was my replacement for Kelgore's fire bolt.
As for armor - note that I did not give heavy armor proficiency and I probably would have dumped armored mage (medium armor), but I moved it back three levels and figure if someone picked up mithral armor, they can use it and still move around 30' base as if wearing light armor. (I'm not one of those that mourned the cleric's loss of heavy armor proficiency -- to me, it's a movement restrictor at beginning levels) Being able to dodge at +4 to AC makes up the loss (which is why I did not provide Shield or Mage Armor as spells).
Another way of thinking is "I'm a mage, but I want to get a taste of melee.", etc. Works both way.
Again, it's a reconceptualization. I could have called it something else, but I figured calling him a duskblade would draw more responses.
Thanks!
Believe me when I say I'm all for opening up his spell list, but you basically just took the best spells you could find and said "ok, he gets them all and can use them when you want, IN ARMOR."
I forgot to mention ... the Eldritch Knight can too.
It's really, really different. It also seems to have more than one major theme: Warrior-mage, innate teleporter, shadow visionary, acrobat-spy, utility mage, primary tank, etc.
The original duskblade was a primary combatant that sacrificed staying power (hit points) for magical trump cards (occasional increased damage output, mobility, and defenses).
You made a class that can do pretty much everything but heal.
Credits.. appreciated. :)
I like the concept.
The mana pool and powers could be a good way to get around removing the PHB2 spells while still granting the flavor.
- Regarding the primary casting stat, I'm on the fence. A Charisma based warrior/caster seems more like it should be a Blade Dancer, a character who reacts to the moment, fighting with finesse and deception. Though spontaneous casters, the Duskblade has always felt like a character whose strength relied on knowledge and preparation rather than improvisation.
- Umbral Sight: Think about switching the ranges for blindsense and blindsight or decreasing the range of the blindsight to 30' and keeping blindsense at 30' at 10th, but increasing to 60' at 16th. This keeps the more powerful ability at a reasonable range while keeping the lower ability as useful. As to the name, I don't know, maybe Umbral Senses or Arcane Senses? Not sure, but since only 1 improvement to his perceptive modes relies on sight, maybe change that one word out?
- Quick Cast: Why have it cost mana to activate? It's already limited by the number of times per day.
- Dimension Hop: You've stated that he can spend more than 1 point to teleport an additional creature. Can he teleport an additional 10' per point of Charisma bonus for each additional point spent?
- Mana: How many points can be spent in a round? Is there a max?
I too am a huge fan of the Duskblade because it has done best what I think so many PrCs have failed at which is the feeling of a melee character that draws upon his spells to do damage rather than physical strength.
However I feel you did almost everything wrong.
The way I had conceptualized it was full BAB, good fort save, spell progression like a bard (that part is fine), give the channel ability at 3rd or 4th level, a few quick casts a day, and some bonus feats from a limited list (arcane strike, arcane armor etc.).
Giving him much more than touch spells, self buff spells, and the occasional utility makes it too powerful by virtue of versatility and his free quickened spells. He needs to be a melee focused character that just happens to cast spells to do damage at that range. I'd like to see him on par with Fighter/Paladin in this regard, but not competitive to arcane casters in other regards.
It's really, really different. It also seems to have more than one major theme: Warrior-mage, innate teleporter, shadow visionary, acrobat-spy, utility mage, primary tank, etc.
The original duskblade was a primary combatant that sacrificed staying power (hit points) for magical trump cards (occasional increased damage output, mobility, and defenses).
You made a class that can do pretty much everything but heal.
It seems that way, doesn't it? I'm aware that some things may be a bit too much, which is part of the reason why I posted it to try to get some other input as to parse down some content or tweak it some.
The irony about the original duskblade - to me - was being called a duskblade in the first place. He didn't seem, for the lack of a better word, 'dusk-y' to me. Of the features you mentioned, he was primarily a gish that could deliver touch spells through his weapon in the same round. I think you kind of picked up on that a bit yourself when you made the gloomblade, which was your own variant and added in a bit more shadowy features.
There's a couple of revisions and comments I have in mind, but I'll address that in another post. In the meantime, I appreciate your response; I do value your opinion as I have admired some of your existing builds.
comments
I'm on the fence about a Charisma vs Intelligence based caster, but then I look at the Warmage. Aside from its Warmage Edge, Charisma is its primary casting stat. I've always thought of Warmages as being a blaster, but with regard to preparation and battlefield knowledge / control. It is indeed a toss-up. But when I introduced mana, I didn't think that should be based on the intelligence modifier, so it was easier to have both the spellcasting and innate powers draw from Charisma.
Dropping Blindsight to 30' sounds reasonable. Now that I think about it, it should be for a closer proximity anyway.
Quick Cast limited by mana and per/day action: originally it wasn't, but when I thought about it, some of his powers were getting a bit excessive and needed some sort of cap. Let's say this duskblade is in combat and has several party members along with him. He throws out a couple quick spells, throws up a dodge bonus, runs a little faster, and/or hop/blinks around the enemy. Then things turn sour and they need to pull out. He can teleport out and take his companions, but he suddenly has a rude awakenening and realises that he does not have enough mana to take one of his companions. Who's going to get left behind? Or is there another alternative? Otherwise, if I have the teleport functions and quick caps not operating by mana, I think he becomes a bit more overpowering in his abilities. But that's just my line of thinking at the moment.
Dimension Hop is a personal/self movement. I only have teleport and greater teleport allow you to bring companions with you. Let's say you have an 18 Charisma. It is essentially saying that by spending a mana point, you should be able to hop up to 40' in that round.
Spending mana: yes, you can spend more than one point of mana in a round. Let's say your base movement is 20' and you want to run an additional 20' in that round; you spend 2 mana points. Let's say you want to teleport away and take two companions with you - that would be 3 mana points.
I hope that clarifies. Thanks for commenting and feel free to toss in any other suggestions!
The way I had conceptualized it was full BAB, good fort save, spell progression like a bard (that part is fine), give the channel ability at 3rd or 4th level, a few quick casts a day, and some bonus feats from a limited list (arcane strike, arcane armor etc.).
Giving him much more than touch spells, self buff spells, and the occasional utility makes it too powerful by virtue of versatility and his free quickened spells. He needs to be a melee focused character that just happens to cast spells to do damage at that range. I'd like to see him on par with Fighter/Paladin in this regard, but not competitive to arcane casters in other regards.
Good points, meatrace. I'm definitely open to suggestions. From using only the Pathfinder Core available list of spells and feats, how would you reconceptualize?
The Eldritch Knight however doesn't have a ton of goodies added to that as well. He's essentially a progression in fighter and wizard basics without the extras, i.e. armor/weapon training school powers etd. Nor does the EK get a pass away from arcane spell failure.
I will give you that (re: arcane spell failure). To be quite honest, I've always thought of the eldritch knight as a bit "meh" given its lack of goodies compared to other existing PrCs - both core and splat. But that's just my opinion.
Here's a couple of changes I've decided on based on initial comments (and I appreciate them, folks!)
Decrease BAB from d10 to d8
Decrease Blindsight from 60' to 30'
Spells removed:
1. Disguise Self
2. Alter Self, Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom
3. Fly
5. Overland Flight
This duskblade is not as dependent on Int and Wis, so those related buffs were not necessary. Since he can already teleport around, having flight based spells seemed redundant.
I still feel that I need to parse down some more spells from the list as well as come up with some other touch spells that I may overlooked that would work here. Thoughts?
EDIT: I've also thought about offering more description on making the teleport abilities more 'shadowy-like' if that makes any sense. Perhaps those functions cannot be used unless there is some sort of shadow being casted. Thus, if the duskblade is in full sunlight, those options will cease to activate.
Here's a couple of changes I've decided on based on initial comments (and I appreciate them, folks!)
Decrease BAB from d10 to d8
I still feel that I need to parse down some more spells from the list as well as come up with some other touch spells that I may overlooked that would work here. Thoughts?
First, I think you mean "Decrease HP from ..." not BaB.
Also, again, while I fully agree with figuring out a way to expand his spell list, I still HIGHLY dislike the fact that you have allowed so many different types of spells.
Let me ask you this...(please explain them too, not just give a few word answer)
1) What do you envision this guy to be doing?
2) What is his role in a group?
3) How does he relate to others in the group that do similar things?
4) Would you always be playing this class over a base class? Why/why not?
if I were to answer those questions about your class, I would have the following:
1) This guy is more of a spell caster than anything else. His spell selection, is much bigger than a sorcerers, he casts just as much, and he can make up the small spells he doesn't get with Use Magic device and items. Sure, he can attack things with his weapon, but why would he bother with quick casting 2 spells a turn?
2) His role is an arcane spell caster dealing damage and moving around (evocation/transmutation). His spells fully agree with this. He can even add a few spells that he wouldn't normally get using his learning class feature.
3) He's more powerful than a sorcerer or bard, as he has a greater range of spell to pick from. He's more powerful than a fighter, since his spells will often times not only offset their feats, but he can quick cast them in the same armor they are using.
4) Given some of the tricks out there to compensate for spells that you don't have, and the armor this guy gets to use AND cast his spells, there's no reason I wouldn't use him. Need a frontline fighter? I'll play a duskblade and focus on protection. Need a spell caster? I'll play a duskblade and focus on damage spells. Need a general guy? I'll play a duskblade and focus on utility spells (magic missile, charm person, magic weapon, protection from XXX...etc).
First, I think you mean "Decrease HP from ..." not BaB.
Also, again, while I fully agree with figuring out a way to expand his spell list, I still HIGHLY dislike the fact that you have allowed so many different types of spells.
Let me ask you this...(please explain them too, not just give a few word answer)
1) What do you envision this guy to be doing?
2) What is his role in a group?
3) How does he relate to others in the group that do similar things?
4) Would you always be playing this class over a base class? Why/why not?
Ugh. I had a concise response to your post, but I got timed out by the post-monster. I apologize in advance if my response may be briefer this second attempt.
Given the # of spells the original duskblade has versus the spells + eclectic learning + umbral sight + teleport mine has, I'm looking at cutting out around 20 to 22 spells from the list I currently have posted (that's in addition to the 6 I removed). Once I get there, I feel that there'll be more parity (I hope).
As for your 4 questions, I apologize again for the brevity, but you nailed it right on the head. In reference to #1, I would like to find more touch based spells that will focus more on casting through his weapon...but not to make it so "BO9S". #2 - spot on. #3 True, which is why I need to reduce his spell choices, but on the flip side I didn't give him heavy armor nor a heavy shield arcane failure resistance. As it stands right now, #4 seems to be the logical choice, which I then refer back to #3.
So for starters, I can see the first issue has to do with charm / telepathy type spells. That would mean charm person, cause fear, touch of idiocy, suggestion, charm monster, feeblemind, and dominate person. I have no trouble cutting those out. That's 7 right there...
Again, I appreciate the responses. Please keep 'em coming.
Thanks!
EDIT. Yes, I did mean HD. Thanks again. :)
You also addressed Magic Missile. That was my replacement for Kelgore's Fire Bolt. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have placed it on the list of available spells. Do you see it as something to be dumped?
Over the weekend, I combed through the list of spells in Pathfinder and could only come up with the following additional damage based touch spells not on the Sor/Wiz list: death knell (C 2), Holy Sword (P 4), Poison (C 4), Disrupting Weapon (C 5), Slay Living (C 5), and Harm (C 6). I purposely excluded all of the Cleric's "Inflict XXX Wounds" spells.
That's the reason why I found it a bit tricky to reconceptualize the duskblade using only Pathfinder based spells. I wouldn't use death knell as vampiric touch appears later. All of the other touch damage spells just doesn't seem right for the duskblade with the exception of Poison, which would replace the Toxic Weapon spell.