Feat Discussion: Between a rock and a hard place


Homebrew and House Rules


I'm looking for feedback and (constructive) critique on a feat I'm designing

Aspect of the Rock [General]
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Power Attack
Benefit: When using the power attack feat the DC of your successful Stunning Fist attacks increases by the penalty you take due to the power attack feat.


Now now, don't be shy :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
LoreKeeper wrote:

I'm looking for feedback and (constructive) critique on a feat I'm designing

Aspect of the Rock [General]
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Power Attack
Benefit: When using the power attack feat the DC of your successful Stunning Fist attacks increases by the penalty you take due to the power attack feat.

Seems reasonable. It can be taken at 9th level for a Fighter, 3rd for a monk (1st for a human monk) and 11th for everyone else. That's probably a bit low for the Monk. I'd add a BAB component (probably around the +4 mark where Power Attack starts to change modifier). This would mean the Monk couldn't take it until 7th level. Still earlier but no longer quite so early.

I'd also consider making it a combat feat as it will especially be useful to unarmed fighters who don't tend to have massive Wisdoms to boost the DC with.

The only downside is I can see is that it is a very situational feat. I'd be tempted to simplify it to simply "You may add your strength bonus to the DC of Stunning Fist." This would make it work off any stunning fist attempt rather than ones against creatures with low ACs you can reliably Power Attack on.


That is some exemplary arguing my good Watson.

Since the feat is self-scaling, I think it is okay for the feat to be accessible at level 1 for a human monk. The benefit is +1 stun DC on by taking a -1 to attack. This seems quite reasonable.

I don't think adding strength mod as a flat bonus to stun DC is a viable idea though - that can easily lead to monks having a DC 20+ stunning fist at level 1.

Keep in mind that there is always the easy "Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)" feat available from the bestiary to increase the DC by 2. Which is a more effective way for level 1 human monks to maximize their DC. That a power-attacking-stunning-fist is situational is certainly part of the intention. A flurrying monk gains +3 to stun DC while power attacking at level 8 (remember the modified BAB while flurrying); or +6 at level 20. That is a bonus that is not to be taken lightly, and as such should come at a significant cost/risk/circumstantiality :)

You're perfectly right, the feat needs to be a combat feat - especially since it is a great way of making an unarmed/stunning fighter more viable.

What about the possibility of adding a "Special: You may use your Strength modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to determine your stunning fist DC".

Or perhaps that should be a feat on its own.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
LoreKeeper wrote:

That is some exemplary arguing my good Watson.

Since the feat is self-scaling, I think it is okay for the feat to be accessible at level 1 for a human monk. The benefit is +1 stun DC on by taking a -1 to attack. This seems quite reasonable.

I don't think adding strength mod as a flat bonus to stun DC is a viable idea though - that can easily lead to monks having a DC 20+ stunning fist at level 1.

Keep in mind that there is always the easy "Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)" feat available from the bestiary to increase the DC by 2. Which is a more effective way for level 1 human monks to maximize their DC. That a power-attacking-stunning-fist is situational is certainly part of the intention. A flurrying monk gains +3 to stun DC while power attacking at level 8 (remember the modified BAB while flurrying); or +6 at level 20. That is a bonus that is not to be taken lightly, and as such should come at a significant cost/risk/circumstantiality :)

You're perfectly right, the feat needs to be a combat feat - especially since it is a great way of making an unarmed/stunning fighter more viable.

What about the possibility of adding a "Special: You may use your Strength modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to determine your stunning fist DC".

Or perhaps that should be a feat on its own.

I was kind of hesitant about including the Strength adding as it is tangential to the original feat.

I like your suggestion of a Special. I was of half a mind (no jokes, please) to suggest a separate feat for that, but figured it was too tangential. I don't think, on it's own, it's strong enough to be a feat, but it rounds out this one nicely.


I guess you're right regarding its powerlevel not being enough on its own. My initial reaction was NO! It's enough! but then I realized that my comparator (Weapon Finesse) applies to all attacks, not a chosen few on Stunning Fist.

I'll have to mull over it a bit... - since I don't like adding it to the feat above (generally short and self-contained is better); but maybe it can grow into a feat in its own right. It would just need some or other extras to go along with it.

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