Question for Spell Compendium Casters

[Daniel Moyer]

My character is a Celestial Sorcerer/Aristocrat, I am looking for a new 5th level spell and I'm undecided... 'Arc of Lightning' OR 'Ball Lightning'

Arc - lets you draw a line anywhere within 60' radius between 2 creatures and zaps everything inbetween for 13d6, Reflex save for HALF.

Ball - lets you roll 13d6 damage around the battlefield as a move action for 13 rounds(potentially 2 at the same time), but its Reflex save NEGATES.

Or I suppose Wall of Force, but its application seems relatively limited since anything I would want to wall off would just go around/over/under the wall a round later.

Current spell list...

Spoiler:

1st: Bless, Lesser Orb of Acid, Shield, Ray of Clumsiness, True Strike, Fist of Stone
2nd: Resist Energy, Whirling Blade, Blast of Force, Rainbow Beam, Slapping Hand, Hurl
3rd: Magic Circle vs. Evil, Chain Missiles, Rainbow Blast, Spell Vulnerability, Dispel magic
4th: Remove Curse, Fore Missiles, Orb of Force, Stoneskin, Resilient Sphere
5th: Flame Strike, Shadow Evocation, Shard Storm, (?????)
6th: Greater Dispel Magic, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate

[spalding]

Teleport?

[Daniel Moyer]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Teleport?

That was a consideration as well, but currently we have 7 people if you include the cleric's cohort(Trinia) and an NPC(Laori). I would have to use it 3 times to get the 'entire' party anywhere. There, back and there again... I suppose it could have significant personal use, but the 'heavenly wings' already let me move 60' when deployed. Yea I know, wings don't get me 1300 miles, lol.

[NOM NOM NOM]

Daniel Moyer wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Teleport?

That was a consideration as well, but currently we have 7 people if you include the cleric's cohort(Trinia) and an NPC(Laori). I would have to use it 3 times to get the 'entire' party anywhere. There, back and there again... I suppose it could have significant personal use, but the 'heavenly wings' already let me move 60' when deployed. Yea I know, wings don't get me 1300 miles, lol.

Let's put it this way.

Teleport is a spell for cheaters.

Oh, no, we have to quest through the evil mountain of doom to deliver the antidote to the queen! Or you could cast a spell.

wall of force with a switch on the other side?

Not sure if your wife is cheating on you?

Want to win the 100 yard dash against that obnoxious barbarian?

Teleport.
</billymays>

[Abraham spalding]

Actually with seven people in the party I agree there should be someone else to cover what teleport does for you, and with the wings you have movement options... the main thing left for teleport would be the "get out of grapple free" card, and such but there are other options too:

Wall of Stone
Cloudkill
Telepathic Bond (maybe~ish)
Interposing hand
Telekinesis (multi~round combat maneuvers)
Fabricate

For Compendium spells
Indomitability (stay on your feet)
Greater Dimension Door (multi use teleport)
Cacophonic Burst (sonic)
FireBrand (more selective)
Greater Blink
Dragonsense (blindsense for knowing where to blast)
Mass Fly
Lesser Spell Matrix
Xorn Movement

@ NOM NOM NOM

Oh not not cheating! I mean I play a spellcaster to ignore the rules of reality, I don't want to cheat! (hopefully tongue in cheek yes?)

[Daniel Moyer]

lol, somehow I doubt the DM would view that as cheating after we basically went pirating in a rowboat at night... cleric put 'sigil of sleep' on the back of the boat. When the approaching ships would use their laterns to spot us, night night. We were considering other applications at one point, shield flaps and horse barding flaps. We decided to let it go since we didn't want to start running into enemy encounters using shield flapped sigils. :D

EDIT: Yes, I know the 'cheating' statement was sarcasm. I must've failed my perception check on Greater Dimension Door, I'll check that out later.

[Morgen]

Arc of Lightning. It doesn't have SR.

[Daniel Moyer]

Morgen wrote:

Arc of Lightning. It doesn't have SR.

Ah ok, it's a conjuration not an evocation, like the Orbs. I have the Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration Feats as well as Spell Vulnerability and 2 Orbs already, so SR isn't a huge determining factor. Though I don't have an AoE without SR. The big draw for Arc, for me, was being able to draw my own line without having to be at one end. Combat can shift round-to-round and I wouldn't have to have the wings(60' move) out to get into position each time.

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Having to pick spells is IMO a downside(limitation?) for the Sorcerer. It gets harder and harder with each level due to all the cool spells that open up. This is by far my highest level arcane caster in 15 years or so of D&D.

Definitely appreciate the suggestions and pointers given so far.

[A Man In Black]

Neither, especially since you have Flame Strike and Chain Lightning and Shadow Evocation. If you really want a blast, I'd pick Boreal Wind, from Frostburn, since it does more damage, has a different element type, and has utility uses (since it's souped-up Gust of Wind with good damage that lasts round/level).

Assuming you're getting away from doing d6s of damage, Cloudkill, Dimension Shuffle, Teleport (even if someone else has it), Overland Flight, and Friend to Foe are all much better choices than either lightning spell.

[Daniel Moyer]

I only have access to CORE and Spell Compendium, as my DM and I both own them.

[A Man In Black]

Daniel Moyer wrote:

I only have access to CORE and Spell Compendium, as my DM and I both own them.

Then one of the other spells I named. Most blasts are pretty terrible by either spells-per-solution or actions-per-solution measures, so you have to dumpster-dive to find decent ones.

Overland Flight is always-on flight, so that's nice. Dimension Shuffle is I-win-at-positioning. Cloudkill solves swarms and mooks and is handy against trapped foes, Spiritwall and Wall of Stone have a million and one uses...

All of these are better than a slightly different way to spend spell slots on doing Xd6 damage.

[shalandar]

Daniel Moyer wrote:

I only have access to CORE and Spell Compendium, as my DM and I both own them.

Do you have access to the Magic Item Compendium? If so, you can fix some of your versatility issues with a Rune Staff. "Don't need teleport very often? Just get it on a runestaff and use it when you need it."

[Daniel Moyer]

shalandar wrote:

Do you have access to the Magic Item Compendium? If so, you can fix some of your versatility issues with a Rune Staff. "Don't need teleport very often? Just get it on a runestaff and use it when you need it."

On a case by case basis, so far I have collected a ring of communication, field provisions box and a rod of bodily restoration. Our barbarian has gauntlets of throwing and one of our rogues has a dragon mask.

I will check out the rune staff later, when I'm not glued to the PC.
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How does Greater Dimension Door work? You can move LONG(400'+) range on the initial jump(mini-teleport), but only CLOSE(25'+) range on each of the following jumps? Reading between the 2 books is a bit confusing.

Is this correct? Dimension Door takes a standard action to cast & doesn't allow you to do anything else that turn, but GreaterDD would allow you to have a standard action before each jump?

[kyrt-ryder]

Greater Dimension Door was a mistake that WotC rectified with a replacement spell offered in Complete Mage, the spell spoilered below for your convenience to copy and present to your GM for approval (Not that I'm saying it's likely, but it's basically the Erratta'd version of the Spell Compendium spell, so hopefully you have a little ground to stand on)

Spoiler:

DIMENSION JUMPER
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Bard 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You and objects touched
Duration: 1 round/level
You whisk yourself from place to place
with a word.
For the duration of this spell, you gain
the ability to teleport yourself up to 30
feet once per round as a move action.
You can bring along held or carried
objects, as long as their weight doesn't
exceed your maximum load. You can't
transport other creatures except for a
familiar.
You must be able to see your desti-
nation; if you attempt to teleport into
a solid object, the action is wasted but
the spell remains in effect. If you don't
end your teleport on a solid surface, you
fall immediately.

Goodluck my friend. (The problem with Greater Dimension Door is that the additional teleports are done as standard actions, aka if your teleporting your not casting)

[Daniel Moyer]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

(The problem with Greater Dimension Door is that the additional teleports are done as standard actions, aka if your teleporting your not casting)

Wow, or anything else for that matter except moving... kinda weak. *grumble* And I just got Mobility for my 13th bloodline feat, so moving through combat isn't too much of a threat,(31 AC w/Mobility) depending on the enemy of course. Thanks for the info.

[kyrt-ryder]

Daniel Moyer wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

(The problem with Greater Dimension Door is that the additional teleports are done as standard actions, aka if your teleporting your not casting)

Wow, or anything else for that matter except moving... kinda weak. *grumble* And I just got Mobility for my 13th bloodline feat, so moving through combat isn't too much of a threat,(31 AC w/Mobility) depending on the enemy of course. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, that's why I presented you with WotC's 'fix' to the spell. It's the same spell level, and this one is actually worth the level, especially if you can come up with some way to persist it (you wouldn't perchance happen to have a party mate who's an Incantatrix would you? lmao)